: Beach Tamer
03-15-2004, 07:46 PM
Kudos on the two hander. It's really impressive. You mentioned so many line possibilities at the show, what is the recommended line setup for surfcasting conditions similar to those at the Chatham light?
Well, sorry to be so un-limited with the choices of lines, but overhand casting is not very particular and thus the line choices are not very limited.
Here are a few easy ones:
1) Wulff 12wt tarpon style lines (intermediate, float, sink). Just spool 'em and you should hit 120' with a few practice casts. This line will throw a foot-long fly 100'. The new Bermuda Triangle line is nice but gets real stiff in cool weather (tropic line).
2) Airflo 12wt shooting heads (intermediate, float, sink). The running line I like best is the new Polyshoot XT intermediate. You don't even need to pull the line out of the guides to hot-swap the heads, so you can use the fast sink at Big Girl, then the clear intermediate on the barrier sand bars, then a floater if the fish are busting on poppers all with one spool.
3) For an elegant spey and overhand casting line, try the Hardy Mach I salmon line in 9/10 or 10/11 or the S/A Short Spey in 8/9 or 7/8 (haven't got one yet to try). This kind of short spey line should be the floating line / flatwinger's dream set up.
The rod likes lines that weigh 450-600 grains, where shorter heads (30' or less) like the 450 side of things and longer heads (40-45' more more) like the 600 grain end of things.
This might sound complicated, welcome to two-hander country! If you read some posts on speyclave.com you will see that:
a) no one believes the damn line ratings on two-hander lines anyway
b) everyone just uses grains over feet to match a rod
Since I can not possibly afford to buy every line out there in the 450-600 grain range from 30-45 feet, I will have to provide a way for hot line match-ups to be posted on the site www.cndspey.com as they come up. With spring around the corner, I suspect we will see a lot of good results becoming available from those who go out and hit the spring migration on the beach.
The simple solution is "any 12wt" full line if you don't want to false cast, any 11wt if you don't mind a couple false casts to get things revv'ed up. Keep in mind this rod was designed to throw full fly lines without any false casts or double hauls. For flexibility try a shooting head system, but buy the best loop connectors you can find. If you are into the flatwing style, try a short spey line but get the grain counts from speyclave.com or call the line rep.
Hope that helps!
If you have specific line question post them and I will reply here. Thanks for flying Atlantis air! :smokin:
03-16-2004, 02:10 PM
Juro -- Rumor has it another, lighter line weight Atlantis is in the works. What are the specs, if you don't mind -- length (is it shorter than 11 ft), line wts., rod wt., etc. If this stuff is secret, well then I'll just have to wait, but inquiring minds want to know ....
There were three Atlantis designs in the initial specification of which two have been built. The 1111 Surf-tamer was first to reach production, mostly due to field trials leading to modifications to the blank to make it what it is currently, a sweet loading lightning stick that takes 600 grains in stride.
The lighter cousin didn't make it before the snow fell. All CND rods are released when ready despite dates and schedules, although field trails are tied to fishing seasons so things speed up and slow down at various times of the year.
The next one will be lighter, but not a rod that will tame the surf necessarily - more one that will provide more finesse for picking up and repositioning flies while sightfishing, provide spey casting support in saltwater without being too long to work a fly and land a fish, and provide an eyes-forward solution to crossing winds with a powerful cross-body cast that is easy to learn, among other things.
It will not cast 175ft like Andrew just did with the 11x11 (sponsor tightlinesflyfishing.com) but it might throw a whole line without much false casting and no double hauling. It will definitely snake roll from one rejection to position 90 degrees over to the next cruising fish on a buzzing flat.
I took the reel right off my 9wt and it cast beautifully, but to maximize the distance capabilities it will take shooting heads too.
Schoolies will still have game on this light rod, which weighs about 7oz even though it has a two-handed grip and is longer than the common wand. It will handle anything that a single handed 9'er will handle, but unlike the 11x11 it does not encourage the pursuit of giant bass.
It should make fishing rip currents nicer, particularly when line control in the current is an issue and distance is an advantage. It's easier to hold the line out of the turbulence when fishing the beach as well - although you won't be able to stand as far back on the berm as the 11x11 will let you to reach the same fish, and it won't throw as big of a fly (line) either.
So each has it's place. I suspect it will make a phenomenal pacific coho salmon beach rod as well as a good Great Lakes winter steelheading rod, and a lighter pike rod. Dearest to my heart is the fact that this will make a fantastic rod for sight fishing on flats around the world with two-hands.
All that being said I suspect that the field trials will be completed very soon as we started last summer. Now that the ice is breaking up around here things should move pretty quickly, if interested I will post the updates.
03-16-2004, 06:38 PM
Thanks for the "Cliffs Notes" version of overhand lines. I like the shooting head option because of it's versatility. I'll keep my eye on the CNDSPEY web site for new combinations as they roll in.
03-20-2004, 01:28 PM
Thanks for the info on lines for the 2-hander. I looked up some of the line specs just out of curiosity
1. The Airflo shooting heads that you mentioned come in 2 lengths: 35 ft (standard) and 45 ft (expert). I imagine both would work OK with a 2-hander. Do you have a strong preference?
2. The Airflow XT running line is only 25 lb test. I normally use 30 lb. backing behind the running line. Is this a concern?
Hi Dick -
I noticed that but didn't really strike me as being a problem given a smooth drag on the reel but I might end up eating those words at the hands of a giant fish someday. Should be plenty for inshore species I would think.
Rio's provides a 35# .035 running line I want to try, Simon pointed out the samples at the booth in Marlboro.
I plan to be using a lot of shooting heads this year so I will certainly find out.
03-21-2004, 07:34 PM
I got a chance to briefly try the Atlantis yesterday. The blank is very impressive, maybe the most efficient that I've ever seen in transmitting power to a cast. We were among trees so it was a bit hard to let go, but a single lazy, wide-open loop backcast followed by a half-baked forward cast was enough to send the tippet a good 90 feet and this was with a shooting head that Peter Charles told me is not ideal for the rod (on the other hand, it was also without a fly on the end). It was a bigger rod than I imagined from the descriptions: it really did feel like a 12 weight, a lighter-end surf rod designed to cast flies. It felt like it will be great for what it was designed to do.
I would love to see a 10 wt version for every day knock around fishing, a two-handed substitute for the 10 wt 9' one-handed standard that is going to be increasingly hard on us budding gray- and post-gray-haired types, something with 80 - 90 percent of the capabilities of the Atlantis but more than enough for 99% or more of the fish a lot of us catch.