Drift Fishing Correctly with Fly/Spin Rod: #2 [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Drift Fishing Correctly with Fly/Spin Rod: #2


RandyJones
02-08-2004, 09:57 AM
The Perfect Drift

Drift Fishing Correctly with Fly/Spin Rod:
(Providing your rigging is correct)

Correct speed of drift:

Imitating an egg-nymph dead drifting along the bottom at the same rate of speed as the water column is imperative to successfully hooking up. This is achieved by looking where you?re mono butt section enters the water. It should be moving slightly slower than the surface current. This matches the bottom current speed close enough. Making your offering look real enough to even the Smartest fish.
Jim Rusher once told me that in the wintertime it is sometimes advantageous to slow your drift down even further. This allows the lethargic fish time to move slightly for what it thinks is an easy meal.


Correct depth of drift:

When I first cast into a new piece of water my first question is how deep. This determination is achieved by raising or lowering rod tip until light ticking of weight on bottom rocks is felt. The next step for me is to look at the distance between the surface of the water and end of fly line. (I prefer to run an 8-11ft. -butt section of 8lb. test straight mono for steelhead, so fly line never touches the water on the drift.) By this distance between fly line and water I know exactly where it should be on each successive cast. Allowing me to set up immediately for each additional cast to achieve the perfect drift. The next question I ask myself is am I weighted correctly?

Visual and non-visual characteristics of line:

When drift fishing correctly the line between tip of rod and weight should be a straight line. If you try to dead drift with a bow in your line, you not only create additional drag which speeds up your drift making your fly look unnatural but also makes for a lot of unnecessary snags on bottom. With out a straight line (slack) your weight is simply slogging along the bottom looking for the quickest and easiest rock to call home for good. A lot of the time if you have slack in your line you will not feel the ticking sensation due to the vibrations not being transferred up through the line. Remember; with line straight from tip of rod to weight you will be lightly tapping the tops of the rocks. Cutting down on drag, giving it a more natural drift and getting hung-up on bottom less.

Angle of rod tip to line:

To achieve a maximum dead drift and cut down on snags the rod tip should be directly over the line. If rod tip is in front of line then you will be prematurely initializing the swing. Also, if weight runs into structure, you will be pulling it into it and creating a worse snag than of rod tip was over line and twitched directly up and over obstruction.

Pre-setting and setting of hook:

This has been covered in previous posts. One thing I would like to add is whenever you set and find nothing there. Don't return your rod to its original position unless you draw up the slack. If rod is replaced to its original angle you'll end up fishing with a bow (slack) in your line because when you set you brought your weight closer to you. Getting hung-up will normally follow.


Common Problems:

If you ever catch yourself bouncing you rod tip constantly on the drift, (more than 3-6 inches) 4 things could be happening.

1. To much weight. Solution- Lighten-up or you'll be getting hung-up all day. I keep 8 different sized bags of split shot with me to achieve the perfect drift, no matter where I'm fishing.

2. Slack (bow) line from tip of rod to weight. When bouncing the rod excessively you are simply picking the weight up and off a rock, dropping your tip back to its original position and letting the weight return to the snag filled bottom below only to get caught up again. Solution- Return and re-read, Correct depth of drift, Characteristics of line from tip to weight, Pre-setting and setting of hook.

3. You are setting the hook on the subtle pauses and hesitations, instead of pre-setting with 3-6 inch twitch of the rod tip. Remember; if you do set the hook and come up empty then remove the slack by pulling
additional line in.

4. You are obviously fishing in snag heaven, loaded with big rocks and boulders. Solution- keep fishing because these areas hold unpressured fish. In November the steelies love to hold in 3-5 feet of rippled,
pocket water. Fast moving water with big boulders is steelhead heaven. Normally these areas are not fished heavily by seasoned anglers because you will spend a fair potion of the day retying. Most guides avoid these areas like the plague. But sometimes the fishing can be "Outstanding".


Besides all the other pieces of the puzzle we have covered and will cover, hopefully these tips will help you all to be more in tune with your drift fishing. Putting all of this together consistently will put you into the 10% that catch 90%of the fish!

Happy Hookin:

Randy Jones

juro
02-08-2004, 10:20 AM
Randy,

I am of the swinging school of steelheading, and have done very well over the years in the pacific northwest. With all due respect drift fishing is not fly fishing, and vice-versa. Call me a purist, but I only fly fish for steelhead. In fact drift techniques are illegal on fly fishing sections of western steelhead rivers.

I realize the adoption of traditional fly fishing in the great lakes is growing very slowly, for a number of reasons. I think in some regions the fishing is focused on fish already on the redds, sadly. The waters are very cold and the fish are dour. But IMHO the #1 factor preventing real flyfishing in the GL is lack of confidence. With preseverence, people figure out how to present the fly to fish and will get good swinging flies. I am not judging those who chuck n duck, I am only saying fly fishing is one thing and drift fishing is quite another.

So my question: Do many people swing flies on the Salmon River? Does everyone still stand in one spot instead of rotating through? Do you think it would be worth my while to come out or should I just fly out to the west where I know I can get a pull on the line with a traditional presentation on my spey rod?

Thanks in advance

RandyJones
02-08-2004, 11:16 AM
Hi Juro,
Hope all is well. Yes, a fair number of anglers swing flies and do traditioanl fly fishing with success.

After you have experienced out
West, I think you would be disappointed up here.

The local economoy could use your $$, but I'd go where the vista's and fish are more wild and come to a fly better. (In my opionion)

Best Fish's,
Randy

P.S.
Feel free to delete this and all post's I just made. No hard feelings, no biggy. I just feel that these sites are a source for the free exchange of information and by adding good substance- bring's more viewers to your site. This helps the local economoy and also any sales you might be offering iff your web site. Content = more viewers. More viewers = hopefully more sales. Its one thing to be a paid advertiser and another to take hours out of my day to write report's, educational articles to help your viewers. And in exchange only add my url. The viewer wins!

Again, no hard feelings if you should decide to delete everything, just felt like shareing, thats all.
May all your door knobs smell of grossly over sized bass and steelhead.
Randy Jones

juro
02-08-2004, 12:28 PM
Randy,

I ask those questions because unlike so many sites who call themselves flyfishing sites but have little content to support it, this is truly a fly fishing site.

As far as posting, we've worked this out once before but for good measure, as long as you are not putting direct hyperlinks to non-sponsors (like outermost) or commercially promoting non-sponsors, then the advice and wisdom you offer is valuable and appreciated.

I for one know how good of a fisherman you are, having fished in the same waters as you for many summers. Just don't tell everyone too much ok buddy? ;) ;) Just kidding, you've been more than generous with your knowledge.

I hope you do continue to offer your fishing insights within the policies that Dana Sturn, myself and the committee of moderators set for this site.

See you on the flats soon (can't be soon enough for me!)

shotgunner
02-09-2004, 08:48 AM
"In fact drift techniques are illegal on fly fishing sections of western steelhead rivers". orig posted by juro.

hello juro. could you elaborate some on this? what is good to go & what is not? (use/placement of weight, weighted flies, ect)

would like to get a western prospective. (from a now eastern resident)

thanks, SG

juro
02-09-2004, 10:04 AM
WA is excellent about getting the regs detailed, although some of the wordings are ambiguous on certain regions, etc.

Here is more than you could ever want to get for perspective on their regs:

http://wdfw.wa.gov/fish/regs/fishregs.htm

Look under selective fishery fly fishing only

In the PNW, drift fishermen abound but do not use fly rods and do not call it fly fishing. The majority of drift anglers use drift gear, which is predominately level wind reels on 8.5 foot trigger handled rods, or spinning rods. Most use extruded lead or slinkies to drift corkies or bait or a combination along the bottom of the river, bringing the offering to the nose of the fish.

Fly fishermen do not use weights on the line and swim the fly over the fish getting them to move to the fly and strike it. It's not as easy as drift fishing but with practice it can be deadly.

One needs to think differently about the water to fish, and the techniques to use. Where drift fishing concentrates on breaking down the resistance of generally dour fish sitting in concentrated groups, swinging a fly focuses on covering a lot of water effectively and really working the dynamics of the flow and structure to present the active fly to aggressive fish.

Granted the frigid temperatures of the midwest and east create more instances of dour holding fish, they are still moving toward the headwaters and active enough to grab a fly if presented properly.

There is a fairly steep learning curve to reach proficiency but the satisfaction of reaching that level is indescribable and not measured so much by the fish hooked but equally in the skill of the angler.

Eventually the angler reaches a new level of proficiency and has the ability to catch fish consistently with beautifully tied spey flies and in summer months surface flies on dry lines, all on the swing.

I understand how the general approach gravitates toward drift fishing with fly rods, as there is no real separation and the fly water permits it. If the fly water regs prohibited the use of weights and people started having to swing flies in the fly water, the crafty anglers of the region would quickly become proficient with these more traditional techniques. But as long as people are allowed to chuck and duck in fly water, stand on one rock all day, the advances in these techniques will remain unrealized, IMHO.

The short story - see the river differently, fish different water, and relate to the fish in ways unconventional to the drift angler and eventually it will all come together.

Think of the drift boater pulling plugs. Is he fishing a weighted little nymph close to the bottom? Nope, he is running a vibrating glorified bass plug in neon colors through the same pool and banging big steelhead. What does that tell us?

Thanks for asking.

BearDenWoodshop
02-10-2004, 01:12 AM
Randy, I think you have good info there. I thinkl everyone has a point. In fact a dead drift is not the easiest thing to accomplish and is consuidered a traditional tecnique. I have been fishing the great lakes for many years and I have seen the transition. Most of the time our waters are overcrowded with many lead chuckers. .... hopefully more posts like this will bring better info to those who need to respect the guy fishing next to them. I checked out your siye...great site.

Thanks --Keith B.
Bears Den Woodshop

loco_alto
02-10-2004, 03:55 AM
The bias for big river fly fishing continues alive and well.

Exactly why were Washington fly anglers disappointed when the Hoko was deemed fly only water instead of the Hoh? The Hoko is poor water for swinging flies, period. No amount of angler effort or attitude will change the relative merits of the Hoh vs Hoko as swinging rivers.

If you want to swing flies, then buy the airplane ticket out west... and target big rivers with wild fish. Avoid the Hoko and its small stream brethren. For that matter, avoid your own local small rivers. Stay home. If PNW fishes who prefer to swing flies avoid the Hoko, then it only stands to reason that you should avoid your local rivers for their same shortcomings. Besides, none of us "fly fish" those small rivers anyway, we just tie our intruders a little light and put the weight on the line instead. :chuckle:

exhibit A: cheek. insert tounge here.

I'll take a nice summer day at home to practice casting anytime over the option of frozen death in upstate NY. As one who fished the upstate NY rivers for 6 years, yet avoided the Salmon River with a passion, I understand your dilemma. But for me, crowds are/were the issue, not spatially dispersed Intruders.

shotgunner
02-10-2004, 08:10 AM
loco_alto you make several points that i think are on the money for GL tribs. to start with the words "big river" have alot of weight. thats something we are on short supply of here.

with the pressure some areas recieve sometimes the only logical choice would be to fish the hoko instead of the hoh. or in my case secret creek#12055 vs. the big manistee. for the same reason you stated, "crowds".

juro, i wish you had a half day to spare for a drift down the world renowned "pere marquette". if you had an hour to spare while you were here for the M.O. clave and needed a chuckle, its just a short hop north. i would hazard the guess that it would qualify as a "nice little creek" by western standards.

i envy the western residents of this board. hearing freds temp quotes of 50 some degrees in oreg, while i'm looking at single digets on both sides of zero as the norm. (big heat wave right now, its up in the teens)

while i'm trying to get more towards traditional methods i probably wont ever be far from some sort of weight. my idea of fly fishing here revolves more around the line on the spool & the casting methods employed. if using a traditional taper line and casting overhead, roll, or spey, i think that qualifies as "fly fishing". if the spool is loaded with running line, mono, or amnesia, with a gob of shot, slinky, or pencil, propelled by a "lob" then it certainly is drift fishing. i wont say i don't do some(less every year) of that, but its on conventional tackle. i gave up on pretense a long while back.

even lani waller promoted the use of lead twist ons in his trophy steelhead fishing vidio from 3M, filmed on the babine. SG

juro
02-10-2004, 08:38 AM
Good points by all, but in the end drift fishing is drift fishing, and fly fishing is fly fishing and n'er the twain shall meet. For me, and this is a personal view, the pretense is in drift fishing with fly gear and calling it fly fishing.

I built this site to be different from the "flyfishing" sites that are not really that, and with all due respect let's stick to flyfishing here.

I agree that if a person chooses to use weight to get a deeper swing, propelling the cast with the force of a shock wave in the line verses the weight of the object on the end of the leader, using only artificial lure tied by someone's hand on a hook with materials commonly known as a "fly" - then it can be called flyfishing - but I also maintain (subjectively) that putting weight on a leader is cheating :devil:

The beauty of flyfishing is to overcome the temptation and become victorious by one's mastery of the technique. But then again beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

juro
02-10-2004, 08:54 AM
Randy describes the technique as the "ticking of weight" on the bottom. This is not dead-drifting a fly, this is drift fishing.

Dead drifting a fly is usually a fly fishing term applied to dry flies (e.g. "drag free") and is also used for wets and nymphs using line control to manage the drift and visual contact with the line to signal a strike, not tap-tap-tap of lead on the rocks, which is the definition of drift fishing.

In fact the most deadly approach to drift fishing can be observed in the pacific northwest using "drift rods" which are coupled with level-wind reels that allow the monofilament to slip under the thumb, extending the drift to 100 yards down the current if desired without flipping bail arms to feed or set the hook.

I have no problems with these approaches, I am just calling a spade a spade - these are drift fishing techniques, not traditional dead-drift flyfishing, in my humble opinion.

Side note:
Promotion of one's business is a privilege extended only to sponsors of this site. Since our existence depends on sponsors, it would be dishonorable to our real sponsors to allow promotion by non-sponsors.

Originally posted by BearDenWoodshop
Randy, I think you have good info there. I thinkl everyone has a point. In fact a dead drift is not the easiest thing to accomplish and is consuidered a traditional tecnique. I have been fishing the great lakes for many years and I have seen the transition. Most of the time our waters are overcrowded with many lead chuckers. .... hopefully more posts like this will bring better info to those who need to respect the guy fishing next to them. I checked out your siye...great site.

Thanks --Keith B.
Bears Den Woodshop

removed_by_request
02-10-2004, 09:05 AM
There are 2 issues we face on our MW rivers.

First and foremost is the makeup of 90% of our waters. Most of it is pocket water. Short deep runs where one must get down fast. How do you do that effectively? I shudder typing these words, chuck n duck. That style of fishing has a downside, it promotes snagging. Way too easy to run your fly into the fishes mouth or other parts. But if done by an etichcal fisherman he can and will score some nice fish.

Second issue is our fish are not the same as the PNW's. From what many have told me the PNW fish are a different lot. More prone to come to a swung fly or surface presentation. Every GL Steelhead and Salmon started out as a hatchery fish. Even tho it was years ago in some cases. Yes at times Steel will come to a swung fly or a surface presentation. It does happen, just not as much as the PNW.

Why is that? Is it our fishes habits or our habits. Stuck in one mode of presentation. You would like to think that over the years the hatchery has been bred out of our fish. If that is the case then it must be us.

juro
02-10-2004, 11:35 AM
Just to be 100% clear, I am not down on fishing on any kind as long as it's not with gillnets. Drift fishing is d-e-a-d-l-y on steelhead, no two ways about it. There is a lot of skill involved in every type of fishing.

I love to fish for pacific halibut with a 4/0 Penn Senator holding 100# dacron, lowering a 30oz lead ball with a horse herring on 100# steel leader on 10/0 Gamakatsus in 240-300 ft of water off the British Columbia coast. Thump. Thump. WHOA!

But I won't call it fly fishing that's all. It's what it is, and it's all good!

BearDenWoodshop
02-14-2004, 01:52 AM
Juro, I saw that my message was reposted on your reply. I want to make sure that I havn't broken any rules of engagement here. I want to enjoy the board for a long time. If I came off like I was trying to use this as a commercial forum I am sorry. I did not mean to spam if I ion fact did so.

Thanks>Keith B>

peter-s-c
02-14-2004, 09:33 AM
Juro

Last fish I caught on the Catt (typical GL pocket water fishing) was taken on a swung wet. However, had I used the typical PNW rig of a weighted tip, I woudn't have had a prayer. I was using a floating line, a single hander, about 12' of mono, and three BB shot above the tippet knot -- no indicator. I'd DS cast the fly slightly upstream, then use the rod tip to steer the fly around a boulder, take off pressure to let it drop into the chute, then swung across the current just behind the boulder. She hit just as the fly swung into the frog water.

Sinktips are fine on the Grand (ON) and the Saugeen (ON) as these rivers have plenty of swing water. You can find swing water on the Catt (NY), the Credit (ON), and 18 Mile (NY) but more often than not, the fish are in the pocket water. So you have a choice -- do you swing in the unproductive water or or clip on a few BBs and fish the pockets where you'll catch something.

juro
02-14-2004, 09:50 AM
Peter -

That sounds like a gaunlet being thrown :devil: ;)

How about a wager for number of fish landed over a 3-4 day period where I only use west coast methods? For me each fish caught on the swing should be worth 3 points, each fish caught on drift techniques worth 1. Actually my weighting far exceeds that ratio, perhaps 10:1, or subjectively infinite but then again I don't fish for fish, I fish for satisfaction.

However I do catch my share of steelhead on the swing and they are certainly fun to catch, I am not dissatisfied with my rate of success.

When can we meet on the Catt and hold this competition, and what ratio of points do you offer for swung fish verses drifted?

peter-s-c
02-14-2004, 10:05 AM
Gauntlet thrown and caught . . . Your second will be hearing from my second. :D

Howzabout the Catt, light spey rods at dawn -- you limited to PNW tips and me limited to mono and shot, no indicator. Same flies.

Odds, well . . . you see, I'm swinging too -- not dead drifting -- the only difference is tip vs. BB. So no odds but I will buy you a Canadian beer for every fish you beat me by and you can by me an American beer for each one I'm ahead. I think that's more than sufficient incentive . . . . :devil:

If you want a dead drifter in the picture, I'm sure we can entice one out of the woodwork.

Oh ya, the name for this hoedown -- "Spey Spat on the Catt" ?

t_richerzhagen
02-14-2004, 10:23 AM
MJYP - You say "Second issue is our fish are not the same as the PNW's. From what many have told me the PNW fish are a different lot. More prone to come to a swung fly or surface presentation. Every GL Steelhead and Salmon started out as a hatchery fish. Even tho it was years ago in some cases. Yes at times Steel will come to a swung fly or a surface presentation. It does happen, just not as much as the PNW"

All your fish were origionally from the PNW, so the genetics are the same as many of "our" hatchery fish. I think the original strain was Skamania? In any case they are steelhead and mostly different in the temperature of the water and type of habitat. At least, I think that those are the more important factors.

Interceptor
02-14-2004, 10:39 AM
Lots of different PNW strains have been used for stocking the GLs since the 1870's. From Washington, Oregon, and California. Skamanias have only been stocked since the early 1980s. So they are the newest strain to the GLs as far as I know.

Hmm a duel on the Catt interesting. Maybe we can get it on Fly Fish TV they have filmed on the Catt before.

juro
02-14-2004, 10:59 AM
And we'll both be hearing from our seconds too!

Same flies BS! I have some time-tested patterns that are deisgned for bringing out the dark side and the finesse in the psyche of the steelhead that you will not even see never mind fish! ;) Seriously the flies are individual as the approach and can not be controlled provided they are legal.

I will be covering a lot of water, so will need to be able to learn the lay of the river one or two days prior. Swing water is not drift water, and only some of either holds fish.

"East Meets West?". :devil:

(I did make the mistake of thinking you were drift fishing BTW) No odds is fine.

What's the best month?

Originally posted by peter-s-c
Gauntlet thrown and caught . . . Your second will be hearing from my second. :D

Howzabout the Catt, light spey rods at dawn -- you limited to PNW tips and me limited to mono and shot, no indicator. Same flies.

Odds, well . . . you see, I'm swinging too -- not dead drifting -- the only difference is tip vs. BB. So no odds but I will buy you a Canadian beer for every fish you beat me by and you can by me an American beer for each one I'm ahead. I think that's more than sufficient incentive . . . . :devil:

If you want a dead drifter in the picture, I'm sure we can entice one out of the woodwork.

Oh ya, the name for this hoedown -- "Spey Spat on the Catt" ?

peter-s-c
02-14-2004, 11:57 AM
The Catt blows out pretty easily so we might want to look at mid-March before the spring run off really gets going.

Greg P. is the local Catt expert -- hopefully he'll be looking this up soon.

Oh ya, I was having second thoughts about same flies as I wasn't keen on sharing some of the really good ones. . . . :devil:

RandyJones
02-14-2004, 12:38 PM
Well, Im upgrading some stuff concerning a work related sales and marketing tool. Looks like yours and other urls have been locked in tight at the top for several days giving everyone a lil extra plug. Great! Could not be happier. Hope it helps some, if not all.

Promotion of one's business is a privilege extended only to sponsors or = people I like. Mostly it's a short url ad that shares something I have found interesting (I see thousands of the same ho-hum web sites) unique, that I would feel I was cheating my viewers if I did not share this with them. (I see my marketing tool and your in this very small category) If it helps put food on the table or a shirt on someone's back. They see a spike in the number of hit's, they get a few new members, maybe a donation, then Im happy. It's not always about the $$, sometimes its about what makes your heart feel good and sharing information with other's that have the same passion's, love that you do.

(Since our existence depends on sponsors, it would be dishonorable to our real sponsors to allow promotion by non-sponsors.)
If any of my sponsor's have a problem with me doing the above, Ill send them over your way. I sure hope my sponsor's dont feel dishonored and disgraced for sharing some great web sites (yours) with others.

Juro, got a web site yet promoting you know what? If so, send it over and I'll post it. I promise not to feel dishonored. Instead I would feel good knowing Ive maybe helped in some small way. Including an education article like that incredible one you did on that Island, cant remember it's name. :) would be really cool, especially with a live link to your web site underneath it all.

Don't know if you remember, but I did send this web site a $100 donation last summer. Just my way of saying thanks. Hope it helped a lil. (Will probably do the same this summer.) I also ask for donations, so I know how much just a lil $ can help when we all spend hours of our time with articles, web site upkeep, $$, trying to put out a quality product, etc.....

Question: Is it ok with all the moderators for me to post an educational article- report and below my name post my url? Not a live link, just the (www.-----.com) part? I wonder how many of your paid advertisers (guides, fly line manufacturers, etc.. make sales, book trips due to an increase of shared knowledge, fishing reports, bringing in new anglers into an area that they now have a better understanding of or increased interest in due to such post's? (My post's?, I think sometimes it's a lot easier to complain to the web site moderators about so and so posting a url and not being a paid sponsor when they themselves benefit from such post's.) Hmmmm, I bet some of you never looked at it that way before. I believe and know for a fact that many folks will read my stuff, but hire one of your paid advertiser's and for good reason. Why hire someone who took hours out of their day too 1. promote their business with a lil url. 2. Hours of time writing = $$ of time invested by the writer. 3. Why hire someone that you just learned something from or enjoyed, or were at least entertained by, when you should really be supporting the paid advertisers on this site.


Today's spin fishing but with a fly rod report for the Salmon River, Pulaski NY Steelhead:
Short and sweet, John was something like 4 for 14 on Steelhead. Amazing!!

Juro, since my post's are on drift fishing on the G.L. tribs and it seams as though you ONLY want traditional fly fishing post's then say the word. I'll stop, even after you were the one that asked me to post. Does not look like this particular steelhead spot is getting much attention these days. I would think anything, besides nothing, would better serve your guest's. More content, more viewers, maybe someone might by a new rod to come up and try it? (Sponsors might sell something?) Maybe a new line? Maybe get a new member? Maybe a donation to this fine web site?

Just to make sure we are clear. I never did call what I do fly fishing.

(( I refer all my traditional fly trips to another friend who does it full-time. Drift fishing is in my opinion easier to teach and more productive for many-many reasons. No time to go into. I always tell my guest's to treat these steelhead just like the trout they fish for back home. I think traditional F.F. is a lil more popular up here then your comment suggested. (Also the same about your "standing on one rock" comment and "crowds") I also dont think your blue or my white space is any more or less valuable than the other. We both work our a--'s off to try to put out a quality product. Yesterday I saw 3 guys with spey rods swinging tubes and spey flies with floating lines, some traditional fly anglers with strike indicators, some not, roll casting, mending , etc... with success. I counted 12 people in 3 miles we drifted, on a 12 mile river. It got up to 28 degrees at least. Nice!

Just to make sure we are clear. I never did call what I do fly fishing. My post seamed to throw a shock wave through your spey rod? The article was titled:

The Perfect Drift

Drift Fishing Correctly with Fly/Spin Rod:

at the end it says-

Besides all the other pieces of the puzzle we have covered and will cover, hopefully these tips will help you all to be more in tune with your drift fishing. Putting all of this together consistently will put you into the 10% that catch 90% of the fish!

Happy Hookin:

Randy Jones

P.S. Juro, members, advertisers, I hope you take some of the above in jest as it was meant to be presented. Maybe a lil friendly fishing ribbing, advise, a different way of looking at things. Some of it was obviously a disagreement. (No biggy) I understand we have 2 different marketing tools that need to be run differently.

Thanks,
Randy

wrke
02-14-2004, 01:45 PM
Juro
If you need a second, just let me know. Don't know what I may be able to add (I've only fished the Catt once) but I'm fine moral support and am pretty good at schlepping.
Bill

juro
02-14-2004, 02:25 PM
Bill -

I'd really enjoy the company - team swing! Maybe we can get Topher out too, he spoke fondly of the Catt last time it came up in conversation. Cumulative scoring? ;)

Randy -

I didn't really follow all that but I think I can summarize my response as follows:

1) yes, this is a true flyfishing site and as much as I respect and admire you as a friend and angler I have no interest in non-flyfishing content here. There are many "flyfishing" sites who do not maintain a flyfishing content approach so I'd suggest contacting them if you'd like to get your drift angling ya-yas out on their sites. ;)

2) Upon receipt of your donation last year I immediately contacted you to inquire about whether it was a renewal (you were a sponsor in earlier years of this site) since it was 50% of the sponsor rate. Your words were something like "no, do whatever you want it's my way of saying thanks". Well since we run this place without pay and deal with high costs, we spent it on the big server upgrade, thank you. But as you know per my email inquiry for your mailing address I am refunding that since I knew you would be mentioning it in this light. Please do not report that as a contribution for tax purposes as a result of this refund, I will not confirm it's validity if asked.

It seems to me you have a philosophy for running a website and in a sense are trying to force this perspective into our community. I welcome you to run your site any way you wish but there is a strong sense of disagreement for letting that philosophy change things around here by our members and our staff.

I highly doubt you will be serving any useful purpose by persisting based on the discussions that are occurring offline.

.02

RandyJones
02-16-2004, 07:30 AM
Thanks to everyone for your help over the years, it's been a fun road.
Looking forwards to seeing you all out on the flats this summer with wish's of continued good health and happiness to all!
Best Fish's,
Randy Jones

Dfishinfool
02-16-2004, 09:52 AM
Randy,
You have prompted me to sign on and post here. I have followed your posts for some time but I had never bothered to post myself before today. I for one feel that a URL below your post shouldn't offend anyone. It's the way the internet works. The open trading of information is what makes the internet the valuable tool that it is. Too many people seem to forget this.

As to the attitude some have here about indicator fishing not being fly fishing. It just baffles me how anybody throwing a big heavy sink tip can really call that flyfishing any more than me running a #14 nymph below a little Corkie. I live on the banks of the Grand River here in Ohio and do enjoy my spey rod and sink tips. I guess my definition of fly-fishing is a natural weightless presentation of the fly. To each his own.

macspey
02-16-2004, 12:56 PM
Hey Randy,
You don't know me, but I know you (your 'internet persona') well, having read your posts with great interest on several boards, including this one. Though I prefer to "flyfish", accepting the considerably reduced odds of hooking up with a steelie on the Salmon River (as compared with your tried and true drift methods), I must say I've learned a great deal about the fishery and steelhead behaviour from you that has helped me a great deal in my "flyfishing". I, like many others I'm sure, 'use' your website to check on river and fishing conditions, in order to plan trips to the SR. I've never supported you directly, though I have patronized several of your sponsors, so I'd like to thank you here for your generous sharing of knowledge and timely information- Thanks!

This is Juro's sandbox, he pays the bills, and IMHO does a fantastic job with this board- it's as good as it gets on the internet, I dare say. So, I feel none of us should second-guess his M.O., vis-a-vis, commercial posts, signatures, etc.

I just think it's too bad that a way hasn't been found for you to participate in our 'flyfishing' discussions here, that doesn't raise any hackles.

Hope to see ya on the SR!

john aka macspey

shotgunner
02-16-2004, 06:25 PM
i wouldn't stick my opinion in did this concern any area other than my big back yard.

i guess i feel G.L. flyboys are condemned as being one & the same as C&D folk ( glorified drift fishermen) when any mention of weight is present. easy to do this without walking the same mile we do. the quest for solitude & relaxed fish often negates most prime "big river"areas.

our quality waters here in N.W. MI. do not specify the use of fly tackle, let alone fly line. merely "artificial bait or single hook lure". this basicaly keeps them open to any and all methods short of actualy bait fishing.

dfishinfool, this board does have a loyal "indicator" faction. its even on the west side of the divide.

drift fishing was/is the topic. i would agree that the words "weight ticking bottom" are descriptive of drift fishing.

i enjoy this site because it is the "real deal" not a "me too". its exactly what makes it so appealing. SG

Cphatts
02-21-2004, 02:18 AM
As a former midwesterner I can certainly sympathize with the choice of techniques used to target steelhead. Quite simply, as mentioned above the rivers and the conditions are quite different. Swinging just isn't nearly effective as "nymphing", drift fishing, what ever you want to call it.

There is no real definition as to what is true flyfishing or what isnt. I agree that nymphing with split shot on your line is somewhat similiar to drift fishing, but it is still more flyfishing than drift fishing. The drift fisher who uses heavily weighted slinkies or egg sinkers with roe or prawns has a huge advatage over a fly fisherman simply using a fly with split shot. The bottom line is the conditions in the midwest are much tougher for swinging and if you like to catch lots of fish, you will likey have better luck with other methods. However, don't fret or feel inferior, if you like to catch fish catch them how you can! It may not be the tradittional or purest method but if you have fun doing it, have at it. Enjoy it however you can.

But if you do want get one swinging or on a especially on a waker...get out West, especially during the summer/fall :smokin:

Greg Pavlov
02-22-2004, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by Cphatts
There is no real definition as to what is true flyfishing or what isnt. I agree that nymphing with split shot on your line is somewhat similiar to drift fishing, but it is still more flyfishing than drift fishing. ..... However, don't fret or feel inferior, if you like to catch fish catch them how you can! It may not be the tradittional or purest method but if you have fun doing it, have at it. Enjoy it however you can.
I doubt that anyone is going to feel "inferior:" most of us have been told that something or other we do or enjoy isn't "real" or "authentic" or whatever. Rock and roll wasn't real music, according to a lot of adults back in the 50's, and still isn't to some people now. I suspect that if an English country squire sportsman from the turn of the last century showed up and took a look around at what we are doing, he would very likely decide that none of us are fly fishing, at least a good part of the time. Who cares.