Sealed Drag - Fact or Fiction? [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Sealed Drag - Fact or Fiction?


juro
12-16-2003, 08:41 AM
I regret to say that every "sealed" drag system I have enthusiastically adopted has turned out to be a farce, at least in terms of long term resistance to corrosion even with meticulous rinsing and soaking.

The initial performance is excellent, and the resistance to salt and sand (I am a saltwater shore guide in season) is excellent as well - but I find that within the season there has been invasion of water into the mechanism and corrosion has set in.

I am starting to think that a fully exposed mechnism like the old Lamson LP (which had other known problems) is the way to go because it is completely rinsed out instead of locking moisture and salt inside the presumably sealed assembly.

How have others fared with sealed drags?

Roop
12-16-2003, 09:25 AM
J,

I have learned the hard way that my system of soaking reels after use isn't the way to do it. 3 reels in the shop as we speak.

A light rinse, spray down with WD40, wipe off, a shot Reel Magic on the working parts - that's it for me for now on.

Roop

Penguin
12-16-2003, 09:33 AM
Charlton...bullet proof...8 seasons sofarsogood going strong!
Bauer...5 seasons...sofarsogood!
Sage...2 seasons...sofarsogood!
Van Zebco...SWEET design favourite...the corrosion jury is still out...sofarsogood!

I rinse well and field strip but don't like to soak.
IMHO...
If there's even a remote possibility of compromise, soaking will slowly introduce moisture to where it shouldn't be.
Take the line and backing off when you're done phishin', apply lubrication, rust inhibitor, wipe down and start tying fuzzy ideas!

BigDave
12-16-2003, 09:40 AM
Juro,

I assume you are speaking of reels like Lamsons that rely on a pressure-click and O ring to seal the drag mechanism.

I have found that the best way to maintain these reels is to do nothing at all. No soak. No lube. Especially do not remove the spool and attempt to rinse the innards of the drag. I did this with my first one and it froze the conical drag system...which lamson graciously replaced for free.

Put plenty of hours, drops on the rocks, sand and dunkings on my L4 this year and have had zero problems - becuase I followed lamson's instructions and did NOTHING in the way of maintenance.

One thing to be aware of is changing spools with these reels. If you have a spare spool in a fanny pack that has been sprayed i.e the spindle has been exposed to SW and is still wet, and you switch spools, you're doomed.

Haven't had a problem since I've become aware of this. I guess some people have to learn the hard way :D

juro
12-16-2003, 09:43 AM
Good feedback...

Pete, if I am not mistaken the Bauer and Charlton (wish I had one) are not sealed drags.

Another point - 'religious' soaking is recommended by some major reel makers as being the only way to combat internal corrosion. Having some trouble I called service and their first question... "did you soak it as recommended in the care and maintenance section of the website?".

I would think that a reel that is designed without chambers to trap salt and moisture would benefit from a good soaking. My feeling is that on the contrary, a semi-sealed drag is much worse than a bare-assed exposed system one can wash, rinse, lube and soak.

That being said, a truly, uncontestably, inpenetrable sealed system would be the best... I am starting to wonder if such a thing really exists. :confused:

juro
12-16-2003, 09:59 AM
Dave -

That is one of the situations, yes. I am also having issued with other designs / brands.

I can accept the do-nothing advise, but if spool changes are a problem I am a bit concerned. I suppose as light as the Lamsons are carrying two reels would not be a problem except for the additional pricetag.

But spare spools are critical in the fishery and although I use the neoprene spool pocket I can't control too much more than that for exposure before swappage. I am meticulous with my gear when it comes to rinsing and lubrication (which is not recommended for some sealed spindles), I do not remove the spool for the rinse but I do rinse any spools whose lines touched the ocean and the spindle is exposed on those spools.

I do typically put all the reels into the pre-washed stripping basket and let them sit while I add the rest of the reels and rinse them; also any spools after an outing, knowing that dilution is about the only known treatment for salt. They soak for several minutes through this process then are removed.

Then all the reels sit on a rack (wire shelf) to dry until the next outing. If I fish back-to-back days they will get a decent rinse and I give them the deluxe $12 drive-thru wax and tricolor scrubbing bubbles and underbody rinse on the last day.

But this is all beside the point... are these drags sealed or not? I am thinking "not".

BigDave
12-16-2003, 10:17 AM
My .02:

Yes they are sealed. With zero maintenance I popped my spool at the end of the season and looked inside. The sealed drag mechanism looked so well lubed and pristine it was practically glowing.

Problem is once you get water inside - it's sealed in there too...game over.

I switch reels frequently as do you. I am careful to stow my extra spool in a place where it will stay totally dry. This probably won't work for everyone esp. guys who spend the majority of their time in the surf. 2 reels would be a better idea.

Final note: after speaking with Lamson about this it appears that the small percentage of reels that are not actually "sealed" share one problem. A faulty or improperly fit O ring. The problem here is the ring is on the spool...so if you switch spools a lot and have one bad spool/seal and you dunk the reel...water invades the drag and you have effectively ruined your whole system.

juro
12-16-2003, 11:38 AM
I'm about 80/20 flats/surf depending on time of year I could go 99.99% one way or the other. I tend to use a much bigger reel on the surf, another "sealed" with problems. The model we are discussing doesn't go there often if at all.

Do you attribute your first failure to the o-ring?

BigDave
12-16-2003, 11:46 AM
Juro I am about 80/20 too...but watching the sleet fall on Sun my brain was about 100% thinking about south beach in June...go figure :devil:

Nope - the ring was not the problem. After my first day out I took the reel apart to rinse it without reading the directions that came with it. Daaahhhhh:rolleyes:

I'm not saying its a perfect reel by any means...but none of them are!

juro
12-16-2003, 11:52 AM
Good to know, thanks.

Man... SB in June... >sigh<

2HandTheSalt
12-16-2003, 02:24 PM
In my experience:

Sealed mechanism=Labyrinth seal

Labyrinth=, " Mazelike."

The Labyrinth seal makes it difficult for water/salt to get in, impossible for them to get out, and they are generally not user-serviceable.

FYI, certain manufacturers who used to recommend soaking reels after salt exposure, are now recommending against soaking because they have found that it just forces the salt deeper into the mechanism, leading to failure. I believe that Tibor now recommends the light rinse/lube method over soaking.

I like a reel that I can service myself and figure out how to get it back together. These are only fly reels, it is not rocket science, to me, less parts is better, and the quality of those parts is important as all stainless/alloys are not created equal.

I personally, would not own any reel that claimed to be, " Sealed," unless it was user-servicable and I could buy spare parts to keep on hand.

These things never break down in the off-season, do they?

BTW Juro, your Bauer M7 was the first Bauer reel I have ever seen, and from the outside, it looks pretty darn nice. How is it on the inside and how has it held-up for you?

juro
12-16-2003, 02:46 PM
I like the M7 for a number of reasons. Although not sealed, it's very "serviceable" and it's an exceptional performance/value for a freshwater spey reel. I can't comment on it's durability as a salter two-hander reel but the combined cork/teflon drag system is very smooth with big fish on in a river. I don't muck with drag when fighting a fish, but if one had to the newer Bauers have the knob on the backside so you don't knock knuckles. Again, that's what the palm is for and I haven't had a problem so far.

I am starting to agree with your assessment on the trade-offs between serviceability and sealed drags. I beat the crap out of Lamson LP's for years and they are back to swiss watch smooth with a little service. Unfortunately they have a design glitch that wastes that full diameter rotor on a miniscule caliper / pad. All they need to regain workhorse status in my guidegear collection would be an upgrade. I am determined to re-design the pad assy on the LP to beef it up to industrial grade, thus doing the rest of the simple brick sh*t house chassis justice. I am working on a mechanical engr to help me out... :devil:

My LOOP HD only gets freshwater exposure, in which it has been flawless, but the new HD 9-13 reel I will be putting on the Atlantis 1111 will be getting full-salt assault this coming season. I hope it's sealed system fares better than my others.

All things equal I would rather have a sealed system that is inpenetrable. I have yet to find that in the reels I have subject to a full season of saltwater fishing. Spool swaps are a very important part of a day out, so that has to be covered. I carry the spools in their pouch inside my Patagonia waterproof backpack, which not only seals out water and debris but is opaque such that even the water and sandwiches are not heated very much on a mid-day flats outing. I have to think this method is adequate care on my part, or at least let's say I need a system that can accomodate me on this. I am not willing to pamper the damn things any more than I already am.

Second choice is a drag system that is tough but easily serviceable, much more realistic I am beginning to think.

I will keep hoping for that inpenetrable sealed drag though...

NrthFrk16
12-16-2003, 03:27 PM
Juro-
You will have nothing to worry about with the Loops. I promise!

On the other hand, I feel your pain regarding the Lamson's. The Lamson's drag is as smooth as they come, they are light, have a great arbor desgin that picks up a crapload of line and they are just downright cool looking (especially the new Veloicty and the new blue Litespeed).

But!...the sealed mechanism as some of us have learned is not really sealed. I am on my 3rd set of innerds (sp?) on my Litespeed 3.5 and need to send it AGAIN to have the drag and needle bearing replaced.

I was discussing the issue with the local rep. and he did admit that there has been a problem that was suppose to be fixed with the addition of the new brass bushing which allows for a better seal. He also told me, that a couple of his reels are corroded themselves but still work perfectly. My 3.5 LS has been corroded for sometime but it actually still is just as smooth as new BUT I can not help but wonder when it will sieze up AGAIN (which it did after the first battle with corrosion finally set in).

If you do decide to send your reel(s) in for repair make sure you send all the spools in with them as well. If you have a spindle that is abbraded or has a rough spot, this will eat through the o-ring pretty quickly and allow for corrosion. The second time I sent in my Litespeed 3.5, I was told to send in all my spools as well (and if I remember correctly, they replaced a spindle on one of them).

NrthFrk16
12-16-2003, 03:29 PM
Old Florida's new Nautilus reels have a totally inpentrable sealed cork drag.

A couple freinds of mine have landed bonefish, trevally and kings to 40 pounds on them without a problem!

Plus they are roughly the same price as a Canyon.

Nick
12-16-2003, 03:44 PM
I am working on a mechanical engr to help me out...

we didin't get to that last time we spoke...sorry about that. Post holiday's I should have some serious time to look into this.

Nick

juro
12-20-2003, 07:28 AM
Thanks Nick I am really looking forward to it - not just cause I am cheap but I would like to see that project complete for the sense of accomplishment. The reel's full potential has only been an increase in surface area away. Your help will be key to that.

Ryan - thanks for the vote of confidence on the HD Loop, I am psyched having put one on the Atlantis for a sneak peek my reaction was "game over". I had to have it. Furthermore my attorney who was there and is an avid angler said "I need to know everything about that reel" for his new surftamer.

Also, the inside scoop on the conical Lamson drag is consistent with my experience. The reel does in fact perform normally despite being corroded inside. The vulnerability of the o-ring is apparently the culprit, and it seems this should be easy to fix. The general design is excellent (i.e. conical drag) and I look forward to seeing this minor flaw tweaked so I can gear up my guide rods with them.

On the main point of this topic though - I am still sadly leary about sealed drags because they are black and white... either 110% sealed or serviceability suffers. I hope the HD is the end-all, and I will look at Nautilus.

Galvan introduced a new LA for 2004 worth looking at during the show which reminds me I will be searching new products for this aspect at the shows this winter.

Eddie
12-20-2003, 09:48 PM
The Charlton reel has proven to be WATER TIGHT! The price is now astronomical (so who cares how good it is...the best!).
The Sage reels seem to be water tight too. Those would be not so hard to maintain.
I don't know much about the VanStaal (r.i.p.).
Water Tight isn't the most important feature for a reel, but if I fished in the surf, it might be. I fish the Sage usually in those conditions andit works great.
I can't understand why anyone would soke a reel overnight. I think one would be better off doing nothing. Most everyone would say to tighten the drag and rinse in fresh water. I've never been much for maintainace. Quality reels don't seem to need it.

Greg Pavlov
12-20-2003, 11:46 PM
I haven't had problems changing spools on Lamsons, even tho they're inevitably wet when I'm fishing surf. One thing that I *do* do is clean out and repack the drag housing with fresh grease on all of my Lamsons 2 - 3 times a year. I also follow Lamson's instructions not to remove the spool when spraying the reel after a day's fishing in saltwater.

I can't imagine how a reel will be helped by soaking it unless, as Juro said, it's one that has an open drag, like the old Lamsons. I avoid spraying reels with intense spray: a gentle spray to carry away the salt from the surface is best.

I don't understand why, especially for the money charged, fly reels are so fragile. It's ridiculous in a way. I've used a lot of spinning reels in the salt, costing in the range of $70 to $120 or so, and had only one that suffered any problems, and that one worked fine after I cleaned it out and reoiled it.

juro
12-21-2003, 12:30 AM
To clarify, watertight is only important for sealed drags because they are difficult or impossible to clean or service. The salt can't get out like water in the ear and the internals corrode. Sealed means "all or nothing". Watertightness is meaningless for non-sealed drags in fact the rinsing process would be helped dramatically by being the opposite.

I don't recall anyone talking about soaking a reel overnight, but it would definitely be better than doing nothing for a season of saltwater fishing. I am sure a quality reel could take it if it could take a season without care.

Van Staal is now owned by Zebco.


Originally posted by Eddie
The Charlton reel has proven to be WATER TIGHT! The price is now astronomical (so who cares how good it is...the best!).
The Sage reels seem to be water tight too. Those would be not so hard to maintain.
I don't know much about the VanStaal (r.i.p.).
Water Tight isn't the most important feature for a reel, but if I fished in the surf, it might be. I fish the Sage usually in those conditions andit works great.
I can't understand why anyone would soke a reel overnight. I think one would be better off doing nothing. Most everyone would say to tighten the drag and rinse in fresh water. I've never been much for maintainace. Quality reels don't seem to need it.

juro
12-21-2003, 12:50 AM
Greg et. al. -

I assume you are talking about sealed drags not open caliper systems like the LP with the greasing, the old discs were useless once greased and other than a cleaning the drag system was recommended to be never greased or oiled for it's lifetime.

I've owned Lamson LP's for many years the first came from their early years in Seattle when the Boeing Machinists started their humble company and made a big bang with it. Unfortunately there are two critical faults with the design that could be easily fixed but there does not seem to be an interest in either of it's last two suitors to sustain a workhorse reel in lieu of new models and new buyers.

1) the clutch mechanism can go free-spool, I have had two go out of several reels over several years but I know others who have had them go regularly in a short time

2) the drag surface despite having a full disc uses a tiny brake pad that when wet loses 20% or more of it's drag until dried

These are relatively minor issues and easily fixed. The reel is a workhorse and I've got my money's worth 5 times over for sure. IMHO if these two flaws were fixed in the LP series the reel would still be about the best deal on the market except for the lack of large arbor spools.

Oh yeah back to sealed drags...

Soaking: I think those folks following this thread may be surprised that some sealed drag manufacturers recommend soaking the reel with the drag loose in order to dilute any saltwater penetration into the sorta-sealed drag systems. Clearly not Lamson, who according to those who replied recommends to "do nothing" but rinse. I am convinced that the problem with the Lamson drags originates not from soaking or not soaking but from damage to the o-ring which determines whether a seal is formed or not. A hard fished reel will get saturated with saltwater through the course of a season, trip or even a day. If you soak or don't soak a compromised seal will rot the internals.

I think the reel manufacturer's hearts are in the right place, but I think they need to field test for a year in a broad spectrum of situations before they unleash the products for general purchase.

One dream of mine has been to get the Forum recognized as an underwriter's lab of sorts for new products. Thanks to our friend and mentor Simon G, we've done that with Rio. I think it would be good for everyone - consumer, manufacturer alike.

.02

Originally posted by Greg Pavlov
I haven't had problems changing spools on Lamsons, even tho they're inevitably wet when I'm fishing surf. One thing that I *do* do is clean out and repack the drag housing with fresh grease on all of my Lamsons 2 - 3 times a year. I also follow Lamson's instructions not to remove the spool when spraying the reel after a day's fishing in saltwater.

I can't imagine how a reel will be helped by soaking it unless, as Juro said, it's one that has an open drag, like the old Lamsons. I avoid spraying reels with intense spray: a gentle spray to carry away the salt from the surface is best.

I don't understand why, especially for the money charged, fly reels are so fragile. It's ridiculous in a way. I've used a lot of spinning reels in the salt, costing in the range of $70 to $120 or so, and had only one that suffered any problems, and that one worked fine after I cleaned it out and reoiled it.

Eddie
12-21-2003, 09:17 AM
Zebco will not continue the fly reel.
I must have read about soaking reels overnight somewhere else. People can do what they want. My reels hold up great with a few rinses a year. Lube once or twice a year (if they seem dry).
Juro, I know that you have tons of reels, but I would try the big Sage on your Atlantis next season. I think you would like it.
Like I said, sealed drags aren't so important, but if they work well, hold up, and require less maintanance...why not? People can pass judgement, but most of the negative critisim comes from people with no hands on experience with the reels in question. I can't comment on the Lason/WaterWorks issues because I don't own one. I own a Sage and a Charlton. They work.
I own a bunch of good reels and they all work well with little maintanence and a little common sense.

The French guy
12-22-2003, 04:09 PM
The Nautilus has indeed a sealed drag. I fish for the big three in Miami and my nautilus is exposed and even soaked in saltwater all the time. The drag is second to none: Smoother than any drag (At least for the Abel, Tibor, Islander LX, Billy Pate and Bauer... don t know about the Charlton= heavy though).
I have no problem with the drag. I just rinse the reel in freshwater after fishing (when I remind it).

I cannot really tell if the drag is 100% sealed, but at least, I do not have any problems with the drag. There is no ways for me to checkthis out as it is not allowed to open the drag cylinder for water intrusion or rust as warranty is void if opened

I will keep you guys posted how the reel holds on the tarpons this spring but for bones, it has performed flawlessly and I enjoyed any moment of the battle because I forgot I had a reel when I was reeling in... the outgoing click (that does not increase the start up inertia) reminded me I had a reel during long run though!!!

It is so light that I use the #10 for bonefishing.... I have two spools, one is for bonefishing and the other one is for my 10wt for permits and tarpons.

For price and dependability, I think the Nautilus is hard to beat.

Serge in Miami

PS. The Bauer MZ has a sealed cork drag too. Never tried it?

The French guy
12-22-2003, 04:10 PM
I forgot to mention I fish from a kayak.

debarb
12-22-2003, 05:30 PM
Ryan, are the new bushings being put into the Lamsons that are returned? As I mentioned before, I've got a LS 4 whose innards are corroded (despite being very careful never to change spools with wet spindles) slightly, the result of which is a "hump" on the startup of the drag. Will send it for repairs once I can spare it for a week or so. Incidentally, my 3.5 has been dunked countless times, but never a problem. Hope they solve the problem, b/c I love these reels.

2HandTheSalt
12-23-2003, 07:50 AM
OF Nautilus has been on the market for about a week. Let's talk about, " Dependability," in five years or so.

The French guy
12-23-2003, 11:09 AM
It has been on the market for longer than that. Biscayne Bay fly shop in Miami has it for more than a month and half now. I got mine (one of the prototype) directly from the factory a while back and at least Dave Sutton, guide in Biscayne Bay, use the earliest prototype for over a year now and accounted for many tarpons, bones and permits.
The reel has been improved because the first design of the reel had bushings not roller bearings currently used that are better than ball bearings mechanically. Also the spool and frame had a little play to avoid the spool and frame to stick together if the two parts sealed together because of the salt environment. Mine has a little play with the old spool and no play at all with the new spool (=production spool, tolerance 0.001"). The two reel configurations work great. Also, my frame has a simple anodizing while the new frame and spool have double anodizing (toughest anodizing ever).
With the Nautilus (the production one), there is no play in the spool, the double anodizing is the toughest ever and it is better to rinse it with freshwater, not for the drag mechanism, but to avoid the frame and spool to be sealed because of the salt. There is little experience with that, but with a minimal care, it should not happen. For this issue, I agree that there is not much experience, but for the sealed drag that has not been modified at all (but the bushings to the roller bearings) there is plenty.

It is not because it has been on the market for about two months that privileged people could no use it before that. Dave tested it extensively. It works great. He just could not talk about it until the last show in Denver. That is all.

Serge

juro
12-23-2003, 11:22 AM
French Guy -

I noticed you appear twice on their photo gallery. Seems like they know you pretty well. If the reel is as good as you say, and it seems like it might be, then why don't you help us get them on board as a sponsor so we can find out?

A reel for auction would get things moving quickly. The alternative is to slow things down if you catch my drift.

Juro
Co-Founder

The French guy
12-23-2003, 11:42 AM
I am just an Old Florida reels nuts. My first SW reel was an old Florida #5 that I used in Africa 4 years ago (bought it from France). Great reel for the price as I was still a student and could not afford the big brand.
Then I moved to Florida to work on the Everglades restoration pan... and I am still here, thanks God!

When I moved to Florida, the temptation was great and even though I bought a super 5 for bonefishing, I bought some Pate, and all the Islander LX that are pretty good reels.
The LX had a sealed draw bar with bearings and I thought they would be perfect for the kayak fishing. Well, I changed my mind as the O ring was not enough to prevent salt intrusion in the draw bar that sealed together with the spindle... Different metals, so anodization in a salty environement. So, somebody is right on that board when he says that it has to be really sealed proof or it is better to have an open frame to allow the wet parts to dry out quickly and the salt to evacuate...
I sold all my Islander LX, dropped my pates too heavy and old designed and focused on Old Florida.
My super five was wet all the time on the kayak and the only problem I had was with one ball bearings (they use sealed roller bearings since) that was rusted because I rarely rinse the reel, and fall in the water from time to time (I indeed have a poling platform on the yak... do not laugh, I know people who fall from their poling form of their flat boat... they will recognize themself :hehe: ).
I own all the super arbors with spare spools and was lucky enough to try the Nautilus earlier.

I will tell Paul (the owner and designer) about putting one on the auction. If the winning bidder does not resale it on Ebay, I think he migh accept. He is really profesional and friendship stops when it is about money... and I am certainly not an excepetion to the rule! :eyecrazy:

Serge

removed_by_request
12-23-2003, 02:40 PM
If any one is thinking of buying a Charlton now is the time. SA/3M will not be making the Charlton we all know and love. They are coming out with a new line-up of reels.

Sometimes change is for the good sometimes it is not. This is one time where you may not want to be the first on the block to own one.

Greg Pavlov
12-23-2003, 05:28 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by juro
[B]I assume you are talking about sealed drags not open caliper systems like the LP with the greasing, the old discs were useless once greased and other than a cleaning the drag system was recommended to be never greased or oiled for it's lifetime.
QUOTE]
I was talking about the Litespeed.
I had a Lamson LP; it was my first reel. I was amazed the first time I saw the drag pad: I found it hard to believe that it would hold up for any length of time. Otherwise it was a good, solid reel.

Eddie
12-23-2003, 05:54 PM
Serge, thankyou for asking the folks at Old Florida about sponsoring the Forum. I hope they take advantage of the incredible value that a banner on the Forum represents. One only needs to see how CND Rods has benefitted from their sponsorship, and there are many sponsorss that renew their sponsorship. I look forward to bidding on the reel myself:D .

kmustad
12-29-2003, 06:56 PM
Here is an industry insider's point of view:

For any hard-core salt water fanatic that enjoys (and methodically does it) taking apart his fly reel after every outing and cleans, lubes and dries all components after every outing, the draw bar cork disk drag reel (exposed) is unbeatable. I say cork because like it or not, when after BIG game on a fly rod, cork drag is what serious and successful fishermen rely on. However, MAINTENANCE is the key word. Exposed is OK (and until now was the only option in cork disk drag reels) as long as you clean and lube religiously.

Some of us enjoy taking apart and cleaning reels. For the other 99% of the population, a sealed drag mechnism is a blessing. Of every 100 reels we get back for "repairs," 90% get a cleaning and a lube job and go back out the same day. The other 10% have mangled parts from improper use or need to have a rusted bearing exchanged (yes, stainless steel will rust if not maintained) and also go out the same day. We waste time and money on such "repairs" and dealers usually shy away from servicing reels for fear of voiding warranties.

Maintenance is crucial to the perfect performance of any fly reel.

With a sealed system, such as the one on the Nautilus (Dave Sutton has tested protptypes for 2 years now) the cork need not be lubed, the bearings need not be washed down, dried and lubed, and nothing that is exposed (except the click plate and click tab to get the spool off (and 4 screws) can get surface rust. Take the spool off after each outing, wash off surface salt and let dry. We have reduced reel maintenance to make it fast and simple.

With synthetic drags, the sealed element is not as crucial because the drag lube ceases to be an element. However, some people complain of water getting on the drag surface and damaging/changing the drag during a fight. For them, a sealed drag is the answer.

With a cork drag that is properly lubed, water will not get between the cork and the braking surface, since the grease seals the water out, but as soon as the cork begins to dry out (which happens in 2-3 months with neets foot oil), water and impurities can get on the drag surface and change or damage the cork. To avoid this from happening we encourage our customers to use our Slippery No. 5 lube (a superlube and graphite mixture) that stays on well past 12 months.

But for those that want a near zero maintenance reel, we built the Nautilus.

Feel free to contact me with any questions.

Happy New Year,

Kristen Mustad
Old Florida Fly Reels
kristen@oldfloridareels.com
www.oldfloridareels.com
888-397-7335

The French guy
01-13-2004, 05:28 PM
It certainly helps me to make my point.
Serge
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid99/pd074a2ae37b0012f19d524f86bef6172/f9f50f3d.jpg

Also: http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid97/pdd28854cba6a2b1c96f0b6b03e01e4ea/fa054c63.jpg

flyfisha1
01-13-2004, 05:52 PM
French Guy - No offense to you or Old Florida, but we're only 13 days into 2004; I think it's a bit early to say that these are the best reels we're going to see introduced this year. Not to say that they won't be, but to say that we'll wait until Dec. 31st of '04 to make that decision.

The French guy
01-13-2004, 06:12 PM
This is how they process each year and nobody complained about it before. But you are correct, so let's say the Nautilus received an Awards in early 2004.
:rolleyes:

I am Ph.D. limnologist (algal production and metabolism), and I work on the restoration of the Freshwater Everglades. What is your marine field. (I am originally a marine biologist working on the carbon fluxes in the open ocean: JGOFs).

flyfisha1
01-13-2004, 06:16 PM
I agree about the process; I recall that they rated the GD by Redington the Editor's choice one year, and I can't say that I shared the same enthusiasm for that model. Don't get me wrong; the Nautilus looks great, and I'm looking forward to seeing one of them in a local store.

My area of specialty is in Marine Chemistry, and behavior, ecology, and physiology of fish. Hopefully I'll be going for my PhD by the end of this year.

Eddie
01-13-2004, 07:27 PM
"Do you have another twenty?"
FlyFishAmerica has zero credibility when it comes to products and travel. There isn't a word published that isn't bought and paid for in that rag. Nice photos, but that's it.
The FlyFishinginSaltwater product blurbs are little more than a warmed over press releases.
I am sure that these reels are great, but I would rather hear FrenchGuy's untainted opinion, based on his experience fishing.

juro
01-13-2004, 07:51 PM
Stay tuned!

I expect to talk to Old Florida tomorrow morning. I for one am hoping this reel is all they say it is, let's wait and see ;)

The French guy
01-13-2004, 11:30 PM
Thanks Eddie to point that out. I did not know the journal was not that objective...
Too bad as it makes my point looks worse now...
It might be an exception, but my Nautilus is the best reel I ever owned. (And I owned some of the good 400-700 reels).
Must be tried on a fast running fish to be fully appreciated.
Sorry to the board. I did not intend to fool you guys.
Serge

Eddie
01-14-2004, 06:08 PM
TFG, thank you for sharing your experience with those reels. I wasn't being critical regarding your point of view, just the glossies. No need for apologies.
I have been impressed with OF's less expensive offerings and look forward to checking out the premium Nautilus.