: Powell Fly Rods Is Selling Direct
11-04-2003, 05:44 PM
I just saw a post on Dan Blanton's bulliten board that has a press release that says that Powell Fly Rods is selling their rods factory direct at wholesale prices with a 30 day money back guarantee.
If true, this could be a good move for all of us.
11-04-2003, 06:43 PM
This could mean the end of flyshops, or at least contribute to it, if all major manufacturers did this. I do buy a lot of used stuff -- but I don't like this.
11-04-2003, 07:08 PM
Ditto....I don't like the precedent that this sets, and the little business guys could suffer greatly if other companies follow suit.
11-04-2003, 07:20 PM
I can see your point but I think this is a move that many folks are wanting.
I think this is good for high quality USA made rods for us consumers.
I mean why would you not buy a superior 700 rod for wholesale??
In addition, this won't put the little guy out, this will make him have to provide better service, but I guess they said this about Dell as well.
11-04-2003, 07:40 PM
Lest we forget, it has only been a few short years that Powell sold rods through shops. For nearly all of the company's 80 years it has sold its rods exclusively directly to the customer. And most people want to cast the rods they are going to buy before plunking down the cash; therefore, I don't see this making much difference to shops. It does mean that Powell will sell fewer rods and will not have to keep many of them in stock as completed rods. Also, I really don't see Powell selling the rods direct at true wholesale to the consumer, anymore than Dell sells computers at true wholesale.
11-04-2003, 07:46 PM
best to let this play itself out before I point fingers.
11-04-2003, 09:58 PM
This could mean the end of flyshops, or at least contribute to it, if all major manufacturers did this. I do buy a lot of used stuff -- but I don't like this.
It could be that Powell does not believe it can continue unless it does this.
11-04-2003, 10:49 PM
It's a tough time for most erveryone. Powell is offereing a great deal. I hope they do well.
Tim, Welcome. We look forward to your continued intrest and participation in the Forum.
11-05-2003, 09:18 AM
I think we all saw this comming as did the computer industry. Many folks will continue to shop at fly shops, however many folks do not want to nor do they have the time. This is a great opportunuty for folks that want a good product made in the USA at a great price, however many of fly shops will continue to do well. The one's that do not will be because of their own business practices and possibly the economy.
11-07-2003, 12:32 PM
You can't compare fishing industry to the computer industry. The time that computers have been around to the open market compared to fishing is a moot point. Especially being someone who has had to be front lines of this damned "direct sales" thing.
With Dell, or Gateway, etc, it is a comparitively new industry. Computers have been around for awhile, but a good workable computer hasn't been out to the public affordably until the last decade or so. Only Apple/Mac's I was ever able to see were at school, and never allowed to touch. Makes alot more sense for them to go direct. Why? Because of the shipping/handling costs. Ever ponder how much shipping plays a part in this industry? They don't have to go through all the hassle to bulk ship a "set" amount to a certain distributor. They build when they want, and then can fix prices that way (and yes, Dell cuts prices, but still pretty much making same money because they don't have the inshop markup). But, guess what? How many Dell computers do you think I see returned, or have customers who have problems with them? Well over half. But, the one big difference between a computer and fishing rod is availabitilty. Chances are, you can find someone close by who has "new stuff", or still find a shop nearby who has it. You can get a feel for it that way. Plus, in end, takes less to build a computer (I know, I've built one and I'm a layman if you ever saw one with computers). Someone who knows what they're doing can take the parts and put it together fast. Since Dell doesn't have "in house" production of parts, that I know of. Chances are, they only assemble what they have shipped in.
BUT, a flyrod is a different beast. So many more companents then "plug and play". If you have a favorite line you like to use, with a certain action rod. Well, chances are, if you buy one direct, you could be SOL. Powell's "fast action" could be similar to others mod/fast action. This is an example mind you. Well, the line you have (which everyone knows there isn't much of a standard in line construction either) won't load the rod the way you like. Plus, I don't know many people at all who own Powells. So trying to find someone close to me that has the model I want to try out will be tough (normally, if I can't test from a shop, I'll test someone who has one, but I prefer to water test, not grass test). Personally, I feel it's more of a "cutting costs" aspect of possibly a company that may be downsliding, IMHO. Basically, you would produce as needed. Which means not producing a ton of rods that shops buy. Which cuts down personal needed to produce them. I've seen this many times before (one bonus of working for a shipping company, you see more behind the scenes then those who only walk through the front doors). I get to know my customers, and also find the inside scoop. So far, the majority of companies that have done similar (and, have dealt with tackle companies through my job as well) are downsizing to try and bring profits up. But, anyone associated with a company doing this, will not say "we're dying/losing money". Chances are they'll make a plea with the consumer that they are "their friend and saving them money". Easy way to gain sympathy and get guys trying to save a buck to buy into this.
But, I don't know Powell, except for the exceptional cane rods he once produced. But from what I've read, the Powell family no longer owns it anyways. So I have no idea who the newer owners are running the company, nor do I know much about their newer products. So have no idea what their plans are. I can only assume from what I've seen in my business dealings and judge that way. Hopefully, the new Powell is doing this for the customer. But I won't hold my breath until all the cards are on the table.
11-08-2003, 10:19 AM
Are there any shops in your area that stock Powells? None in mine do. They carry the Scotts, Sage, Winston, etc. Perhaps Powell has no option.
Further with a 30 day guarantee, I can't see how you could loose. You should be able to adequately test it in 30 days. With this discount, youshould be able to afford a new line.
11-08-2003, 11:18 AM
I have several older EC Powells and the Great Grandson of EC refinished one of them for me. At the time he did Powell Rod was going through a transition of ownership and he was about to leave the company, as I recall he told me that Charles Schwabb had purchased the rod builder. I always thought that was strange but hey Warren Buffett of Berkshire Hathaway owns Ginzu Knifes. After all its just bussiness!
69er your right on the mark on the older cane Powells being great rods, I have been informed that the Grandson is now making the same tapers and the same quality on his own. Not sure what the brand name is but I think I will get one this year or next depending on the wait list.;)
11-08-2003, 05:15 PM
I do believe it was Schwab that bought it out. I would love to own a nice steelhead bamboo rod by him, if the grandson is making them like granddad did. Heard NOTHING but high praises for them. In fact, have a friend who has one, BRAND NEW, never fished that his Grandfather had bought and he inherited it. I'm still trying to talk him out of it. :D But don't think it'll happen in the pricerange I would like. :hehe: But it's a beauty. If I didn't know any better, I'd say it's only a year old, not like 50 years old. It's that nice of shape.
Well, the only problem with a 30 day try it. Most won't ship it back. Especially when it comes to rods. Most "30 day" trials INCLUDES day it was shipped and ends 30 days from that point. Companies like to pull tricks that way. I know, I've had to deal with returns of the like (not rods, but other products) and heard all the bitching and complaining from customers who didn't realize it was that way. But some, just say "screw it" and keep the product. It's paid for, and they will try and pawn on someone else. Trust me on this. Much different when you have to rebox up, and then ship off, then taking back to a fly shop. Heck, I've even seen people who were NOT given credit, since they didn't pack the product up properly. Was damaged on delivery. And they were out the product AND refund. We weren't at fault because of faulty packaging (box was perfect, but product was left bouncing around inside). Most don't want to deal with that at all. So, time will tell. I personally know, most don't want to take something like this home unless they don't pay for it until they decide to keep it. Sucks having to wait for a credit back. I would never do it personally. I think it's working in the shipping industry for 15 years and seeing what happens ALL the time that has scourned me over this type of process.
11-08-2003, 05:29 PM
Charles Schwab used to own Powell rods, and recently sold it to one of their emplyees. I believe that he is a very well know and respected rod designer who designed most of the East Branch rods. I have not had the opportunity to cast on of the new Powells, but I have heard good things about them.
It is pretty easy to find out the ground rules before you try out a rod. If asked, reputable companies will easily give you an extension if you have a good reason.
I think that this is an interesting development. Not many items are fair traded anymore as are rods and reels. A little competition might get prices where they should be. I think that fly shops should stay in business because of good support and services, not a fair trade subsidy.
11-08-2003, 09:06 PM
Lest we forget (and I'm aware that many of us do not know this because we were born after buying top quality rods in shops became the norm) that until the late 1960's-early 1970's quality rods were bought directly from the manufacturer. And you had to pay for the rod upfront and then wait the 3 months to 2 years before it got to your hands from the time you ordered it.
The two friends I had that owned shops (they are both retired now) sold everything from tying thread at $1.00/spool to high end rods at $500.00+. Guess what they made the majority of their yearly profits on? Right, the fly tying materials, waders, fly lines, leaders, flies, clippers, etc. In other words, the vast majority of their yearly income was not from rod sales.
11-08-2003, 10:13 PM
Prices ARE where they should be.. I guarentee you that you would not have the quality fly rods today if they could not charge 500+ for them.
I'll tell you one thing comong from the industry perspective. If my boss couldn't sell a rod for 500-900 dollars I wouldn't have a job. neither would thousands of other fly fishing industry employees. High end products are the engine of the industry.
Every morning I wake up I thank God for 500 dollar rods, 400 dollar reels 300 dollar waders and 60 dollar fly lines.. They are my lively hood.
Thank God for orvis and Sagewho popularized 500 dollar rods..
11-08-2003, 11:00 PM
Are you suggesting that I shuld be happy paying $600 for a rod, $500 for a reel,etc, if it puts another person (that I don't know) to work?
11-09-2003, 01:20 AM
No I am suggesting that the reason rod makers have the ability to produce such good rods in such quantities is because they can charge 500 bucks for them. If they sold for 1-2 hundred there would be no profit most makers would go out of business and what was left would not be the quality and quantity you are used to.
What do you do for a living Nevada caster??
are you worth what you get paid??? The market bears rods in the 5-800 dollar range. You certainly aren't required to pay that much there are plenty of less expensive rods on the market. I encourage people to pay for good stuff because it's worth it. 500 bucks is not excessive because peoples labor is worth something, peoples passion is worth something and peoples commitment to excellence is worth something all of which exsist in the high end rod market.. If you don't value thoes things there are plenty of cheap rods available.
11-09-2003, 02:07 AM
That prices really aren't up much compared to income.
I know my first rod/reels cost me almost 2-3 weeks pay to buy. That was 20 years ago. That was top notch gear back then. Now, I can buy a top notch rod/reel just at a weeks pay. Same job, same constant upswing on raises to hit cost of living. I know that my Dad is in about same boat. But his rod and reel he first bought back in the very early 50's cost almost 2 weeks pay. And, same thing, he could buy a top notch outfit well within his weeks pay nowadays. Well, until he just recently retired that is. I don't mind paying the money for the rods. But myself, I buy the top notch rods used and a fraction of the cost. I can see rob's point. Eventually, we will be a country of buyers, not producers. There is NO way we could compete with overseas production costs. I know I was offered by a friend to have a plant he owns produce flies for me. Would cost me about $4 a day to have a ton of flies to be produced (not including me providing the materials). $4 a day for labor cost per person is DAMNED cheap. I'm sure not many people here would sit down for $4 for a DAY to tie flies.
11-09-2003, 03:12 PM
I have nothing against the small rod builder who makes a quality product and sells direct to his customers. Production output and business economics pretty much dictate that method of doing business in order for him to offer his product at a price that makes it worth his effort.
For the larger companies that are trying to cut costs however, it would seem to me that with the internet capabilities we have today, why do the manufacturers not consider selling directly to the flyshops? Why do we need to go through distributors? Why should a flyshop have to carry the entire line in order to qualify as being worthy of representing Sage, T&T, Ross, Tibor, or ???
The original concept, as I was led to believe, was that the distributor could screen out the shops. The end result being the establishment of Fly Fishing "Pro" Shops. And it worked. At least for many years. Then why am I now seeing shops that are selling mountian climbing equipment, river rafting boats and equipment, hiking and skiing equipment, and back in the corner is the fly fishing section? With one guy in the store that will try and talk to you as if he knows as much about what he is tring to sell you as you do?
I had better quit before I step on too many toes and P.O. too many people. :devil:
IMHO - It's a big gamble.
The flyshop adds a tremendous benefit to the consumer's decision making, customer service, and they give you a lot more than what's in the bag when you leave the shop. Flyshop staff are avid fishermen and have a lot to offer. If you cut them out, you cut out your own local supply house for all the other things they invest in to stock their shelves so you can get what you need in a pinch. I can't tell you how many times a last minute run to a local shop has made my trip, and the shop could be 5 minutes away or 3,000 miles away from home when I am on a fishing trip. From my point of view, the more flyshops that dot the countryside the better!
JD - FYI
Manufacturers don't want to sell directly to the consumer in most cases. They would much rather have an intermediate party invest $ and hold the inventory. The last thing they want to do is handle the picking, packing and shipping to individuals from manufacturing, especially when the rods aren't out there in the various shops on location for people to fondle and fall in love with in the first place. IMHO, I don't think it's desirable in the vast majority of cases for them, but I could be wrong.
11-09-2003, 06:23 PM
And the folks who are having flies tied for between $2.00 and $5.00/day in labor costs for sale in the U.S. or other markets are still selling those same flies for a very high profit. How many flies have you seen of decent quality that are imported selling for $.50 each? I sure haven't. And how many of the imported flies are selling wholesale for $7.00/dozen for salmon and steelhead flies or $4.00/dozen for trout flies? Many of the importers are selling them wholesale for the same or very little less than what very good U.S. tyers will tie for.
Worse is how many shops do you know that have the majority of the flies they have in stock tied by U.S. tyers? Damn few in my experience, and it doesn't matter what area of the country you look. Almost without exception, shops are selling imported flies from the large importing manufacturers that are being tied with the $2.00 to $5.00/day labor. And some of these manufacturers own the hackle growing operation, are the hook distributer, and the material distributor; thus, they have extremely low costs.
Just because something can be produced with lower labor costs in another country does not mean it is the best thing for consumers, shops, or the wealthier industrialized countries. The big importing manufacturers make a lot of money doing this though, and it doesn't help the shops or tyers in the area (or country for that matter) that the shop is located in. And the shops aren't making anymore profit nor buying the flies any cheaper than from local tyers.
Food for thought, Hmmmmm..............
11-09-2003, 09:42 PM
FT, if you know US flytyers that can match Targus (or even get close) on price (wholesale), I would be very surprised and impressed. I wish it was so. I don't think there's a shop in the country that would choose offshore ties over domestic, were it not for pricing.
11-10-2003, 03:44 AM
What I was trying to say was that we need the flyshops, with knowlegable people running them. They provide a valuable service to the fly fishing community.
It's the distributors, the middle men, that I question. Granted, there are some who buy things in bulk quantities and re package them in quantities that are suitable for individual use. They have their place as well. But why should a flyshop not be able to place an order directly with Sage, T&T, Tibor, whoever?
I can see where a brand new start up company needs someone, a rep if you will, to go out and pound the streets to get their products known and in the fly shops.
But do the well known "big boys of the industry" still need that?
And do we, the end user, benefit from that? I think not.
11-10-2003, 04:21 AM
What FT meant was not the materials, but the tyer's themselves. Alot of the hooks some of us who tie professionally are imported from Japan (do believe Daiichi are made their). These fly distributors buy up materials wholesale (like those of us who tie commercially) and export them to these shops whereever they may be. They have these people sit all day and pay them nothing to tie these flies. Then, like FT said (which I TOTALLY agree with it all) the shops here sell them at rates that a local tyer would sell them at. In fact, alot of times they are using inferior hooks and materials. So huge profit, crappy product. Also, you'd be surprised what the upmark on hooks is. I have most wholesale catalogs on hooks. I know Targus isn't the cheapest wholesale, and I'm not talking about Mustads being cheaper either. Higher end hooks.
I had only brought up fly tying because it's another thing that's being produced overseas (like fly rods and such). You get better deals, but not always better product. I've seen these "quality flies" tied overseas. Laughed. Made me feel 1000% better about my ties. But most fly shops don't want to pay prices for quality tyer's around the area. Most want to buy super cheap and sell super high.
11-10-2003, 04:40 PM
Like Steelheader69 found, nearly every shop here in the Puget Sound area sells imported steelhead flies for prices that would allow them to buy from domestic tyers. I know of no shops that are exclusively fly fishing in this area that sell steelhead flies for less than $2.50/fly. And speys and G.P.'s are being sold for $3.50 to $5.00/fly. At the same time, they want local tyers to tie the standard steelhead flies for $9.00 to $11.00/dozen (remember they are selling them for $2.50 each) and the speys for $12.00 to 16.00/dozen (which they are selling for $3.50 to $4.00 each. G.P.'s they want for $14.00 to $18.00/dozen (and they sell them for $4.00 to $5.00 each).
I will not tie speys for these prices (and the local shops expect blue eared pheasant or Whiting Spey Hackle at this price from local tyers) because you cannot tie a dozen well-tied ones in an hour. Likewise, I will not sell G.P.'s for for these prices because you cannot tie half a dozen of well-tied ones in an hour. The shops are charging enough for the imported flies that they could easily pay local tyers reasonable prices for them; however, nearly none of them will.
And I have seen very few imported flies tied with cheap labor that were of high quality. Even the so-called superior flies of Umqua are not of consistent quality, and they aren't cheap wholesale.
Fly fishers will pay a reasonable amount for quality well-tied domestic flies. A better question is: Why do shops buy imported flies at $5.00 to $7.00/dozen and then sell them for $1.50 to $2.00 each and expect local tyers to sell better quality at the same price/dozen as the cheap imported flies? Likewise, why will shops buy from Umqua at prices very comparable to what U.S. tyers need to get and then expect local tyers to sell for less?
Sorry about the rant on shops regarding local vs, imported flies. It is just maddening to see this and then see shops tell local tyers they can't make a profit if they buy local flies.
11-10-2003, 08:23 PM
FT, I miss understood. I thought you were saying that domestic tyers could match the offshore prices. I agree, they can not.
I have spent a fair amount of time selling flies, and trying to think of better ways to sell them. I wish it was easy to sell more expensive flies. I wish the general customer could be educated on the value of well tied and proportioned flies. The desire to stay in business is not the same as greed. Obviously the markup on flies isn't keeping many shops in business. Every shop would love to sell bamboo rods and domestic ties (both are low mark up propositions), but the market for more expensive stuff is shrinking. Sad but true.
JD, there is no middle man (wholesaler) for the most part. Any shop that qualifies can deal with T&T or Sage or whoever. Most companies do have a rep (middle man).
11-10-2003, 10:58 PM
The desire to stay in business is not greed. That said I must tell about a friend of mine who had a fly shop on the Olympic Peninsula. He sold only locally tied steelhead flies that were tied by myself (I tied 90% of them) and one other tyer (he tied 10% of them) for a period of 9 years.
He sold all the flies that we tied for him and at normal market prices while paying myself and the other tyer a fair price. Additionally, he would sell either of us (or the 3 folks he had tying trout flies for him) anything he had in his shop, or any item he could get for us at his actual wholesale cost (he was the only shop I ever dealt with over a 25 year period of tying commercial accounts that did this).
He had people travel as much as 8 hours just to buy steelhead flies he had in his shop. I tied and he sold as many as 20 dozen spey flies in a week at times. He also found that people would buy true low-water featherwings and pay a fair price for them in summer-fall. The shear quantity of steelhead flies he sold at times was nothing short of remarkable. I vividly remember one day going into his shop with 20 dozen spey flies and having 3 customers who were in the shop buy 9 dozen of them immediately. And as he was ringing up these sales, he got a call from a customer who lived 4 hours away inquiring about spey flies and he sold the other 11 dozen to him.
The towns on the Olympic Peninsula are blue collar, small towns that are a long way from the city. What the owner of this shop found was that people would pay a little more for quality, well-tied. well-proportioned flies because they held up better and caught more fish. He was surprised at the how many of the local folks would keep coming back for the locally tied flies because they nearly always bought low to mid-priced rods and other equipment. Interestingly, when he began taking some of the his end rods outside for casting demos or lessons, many of the locals decided that the expensive rods were worth saving for and they bought them.
I don't think his exerience is unique nor unusual. He took the chance to sell flies at a smaller margin (he gave the tyers 60% of retail for them) and at a slightly higher price than the imported ones. He found that his customers not only bought them in the same numbers they had bought the imported flies in, they actually bought more flies because he had flies they could not find in catalogs. And his customers told others about the flies who then bought them resulting in their telling others, etc.
The biggest complaint I have heard about the steelhead flies found in shops is they are poorly proportioned and poorly tied.
Sorry about taking this thread off in a new direction.
Hey FT! I had no idea I had bought and fished your flies from Manuel, correct? Pretty nice ties indeed, in fact I recall a very nice Sol Duc summer fish I landed on one.
11-10-2003, 11:58 PM
There are several reasons that I suspect Powell is starting to sell direct to consumers. For one, if the company is indeed in a state of transition, the new owner may think that the terms dictated by distributors for excessive discounts and extended credit terms are a load of bull; this is, btw, regardless of how long the guy's been in the rod-building profession. In the long run, a distributor can squeeze the manufacturer for so high a discount that even though there are sales figures, the manufacturer is working his tail off and making literally no money. In that case, why continue to go through distributors? And if the stores happen to have agreements with their distributors that they will only sell what the distributor carries, then Powell is SOL in that case as far as sales at the retail level are concerned in those particular stores. So the manufacturer sells direct to the end user at wholesale, which is probably still more than three times the cost of manufacture. What's to lose?
There are other reasons to get out of distribution, but the ones listed above are reason enough. Let Powell sell direct; people will still walk into their LFS a couple of times each year and pick up a new rod by some other manufacturer.
If it were my company, I'd probable sell direct to stores at wholesale with discounts based on volume, and to consumers as well at prices a few points above the MSRP. That way, everone wins.
A lot of assumptions being made here, that's for sure!
IMHO the reason Powell is selling direct to consumers at wholesale is not a result of distributors pressuring the mother ship as is implied...
In fact I would guess that their core problem is lack of a strong distributor and rep network. I'd bet the best thing that could happen to them is a strong distributor and a broad network of reps pushing the product everywhere you go, wouldn't you agree?
11-11-2003, 05:30 PM
"If it were my company, I'd probable sell direct to stores at wholesale with discounts based on volume". that is how it works already.
Orvis is the only company that sell wholesale and direct (that I can think of). I don't know why a shop would want to carry a product and have to compete with a manufacturer that marks everything down at the end of the season.
11-11-2003, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by Eddie
"Orvis is the only company that sell wholesale and direct (that I can think of). I don't know why a shop would want to carry a product and have to compete with a manufacturer that marks everything down at the end of the season.
AND makes you carry rods you don't want (and that don't sell) in order to have reels, clothing, etc. :mad:
11-11-2003, 10:57 PM
speaking specifically about orvis.. The reason Orvis rods don't sell in the west is because salesmen won't push them in fly shops!!
A few years ago i worked for an orvis dealer in oregon and went to their annual sales convention thing in Portland where they show all the new stuff, This was the year the vortex reel was brand new as was the new Trident tls
The 7100 was especially nice and powerful.. and most of the rest of the line was as good or better than comparable sages scotts and winstons.
The ONLY reason they didn't sell out west is because no salsmen bothered to try and sell them.... thats my opinion anyway
11-12-2003, 12:42 AM
Yep, you got my flies if you bought them from Manuel. He bought between 825 and 875 dozen per year. It was profitable for both of us. And for about 5 years Al Peterson bought spey, marabou spider, bass bugs, grease liners, and G.P's from me. He didn't buy anywhere near the amount Manuel did though. And Tom and Kevin bought speys, grease liners, bombers, and epoxy head salt water streamers. You may have bought some of them from these folks as well.
11-18-2003, 10:51 PM
Just in case it hasn't been mentioned or noticed yet. This "FREIGHTOR" aka STICKER aka tim aka Steve Nailer is a freind of, and is some how in cahoots with, the new powell ownership. He has hit other boards with this thread. This is a tactic proflied in TIME magazine but i forget the name. The goal is to get lot's of talk going (good bad or indifferent) on the subject to generate lots of free advertising.
Boycott Powell! This is a tactic of a company dumping its product.
American made sure but in the long run probably more un-employeed Americans.
11-18-2003, 11:22 PM
Heavens! What some people will do... :tsk_tsk: It's funny, re-reading the first few posts, you can see the shoveling in progress.
11-19-2003, 09:34 AM
"gorilla marketing" or spam as most know it is not new, but it is being used more and more. I am sure that Powell is not going that route. A good product (like Powell rods) would not benefit from a cheap promotional campaign. Kind of like Cadillac spray painting their logo on people's houses. Not a good way to sell cars.
For a small investment, Powell (or anyone for that matter) could sponsor this web site. While generating good will, they would also let people know that they are in the same class as the other sponsors of the Forum.
"FREIGHTOR" aka STICKER aka tim aka Steve Nailer how's the fishing in the Delta?
11-19-2003, 10:11 AM
Steve Nailer already admitted to it on the Blanton board ( sponsored byPowell).
And look to his references to "how much talk this generated in 24 hours" the cornerstone of (thanks for reminding me) gorilla marketing.
11-26-2003, 06:39 PM
First of all. All I ever said was that I know the folks at Powell.
Gorilla marketing, I think not. The publicity generated, anyone can see that. But I know those folks, and please we are just a minute number of folks, they have much bigger fish to fry, no pun intended. It's just the facts.
I think they have a good plan but time will tell.
Take care all.
11-26-2003, 08:42 PM
Let's see for your 4 posts we get 3 pages on the topic and over 900 page views. Not including your activties on VFS and the blanton board (under different handles) I am guessing close to 3000 page views assuming you haven't pulled this stunt on any other boards.
3000 page views (and counting) all by fly fishers about a product for fly fishers pretty effective stunt.
11-27-2003, 09:47 AM
Robert, I think that you make an excellent case for Forum sponsorship. It really is a terrific value.