: Our Vision and Mission
02-02-2001, 07:45 PM
Great work everyone! We have a Vision and a Mission Statement and they are as follows:
"Where companions share the passion of fly fishing."
"The Flyfishing Forum is a community of anglers dedicated to sharing knowledge and experience, conservation of the resource, and promotion of friendships and fun around the world. All are welcome; there are no strangers on the water."
The results of the voting were:
Both vision and mission – 7
Just mission – 4
(Because some people only voted for one, I included their votes in both the vision and mission counts.)
#4 – 6
#5 – 6
#6 – 1
#1 – 2
#4 – 9
#7 - 2
Well it looks like I’ll be a little busy at the vise with about 50 flies to tie for the participants. I’ll e-mail each of you to find out if you want flies for trout, striper or one of each.
Thanks again everyone!!!
There's a professional copyeditor in our midst. (Oh, that explains it; we were wondering what that unusual smell was....)
No changes in meaning, of course...And, as I always stipulate when copyediting, feel free to tell me to "get bent!!"
"Where companions share their passion for fly fishing."
(Just clarifies verb phrase.)
"The Flyfishing Forum is a community of anglers dedicated to sharing knowledge and experience, conserving the resource, and promoting friendships and fun around the world. All are welcome; there are no strangers on the water."
(Just provides parallel structure across the sentence.)
02-03-2001, 12:47 AM
No offense meant please.
I've had enough of this smoke and mirrors crap ass bull$hit. No, "I am not PC". And no this is not a case of shack nasties. Just the facts. Is this a fishing site or NOT?
Global this, raffle that and agape whatever. Give me a freakin break!
All I know is this, this is a group of guys that I know who love to fish as much as I do and I love to fish with them. Let's keep it that simple.
Let's work on keeping things short and to the point here (no hitting below the belt, no rabbit punches, and please gentlemen, when you hear the bell proceed to your corner)
I'll say this, while I appreciate the degree of honesty in what you say Sully, I think your choice of medium is dead as$ wrong. Pick up the phone if you want hit people with this much truth. $.02
Hi Sully -
I know you well enough to know where you're coming from, in other words keep it unspoken and without frills, etc. I can't say that I totally disagree on the intent of your statement. On the other hand, making such a statement after the fact seems a little reactive. Just so I better understand your point of view, what is it specifically that you don't like? (email or phone is an option as well)
You may have noticed that I stayed pretty much out of it out of respect and appreciation. I also had my opinions along the way but the important thing here is that people pulled together and accomplished something definitive. Frankly, my words would have been different; but it was not my original question, it was an excellent process of refinement, and now the outcome belongs to all who participated. It doesn't change the site or what we do, but it helps reinforce some important things for some of us. Not for all, but very important for some.
I don't think it negates anything established thus far, we're going to have a hell of a season. Thanks to you and Stony Brook, we're off to a great start. Feel free to give me a call to discuss, or post your concerns and we can work it out. I gotta warn ya though when you open it up, the truth can go in both directions. http://www.flyfishingforum.com/images/flytalk/Wilk.gif
While we're being honest, I like and agree with the mission statement but don't think we need the vision statement as well. It is kind of obvious and the mission statement alone more than does the job.
As stated many times prior to this exercise, I envision <b>"Intense regional flyfishing clubs sharing home waters around the world"</b>. No smoke, no mirrors, it's the internet way. Of course it will be 90% regional, 10% international - but hey it's already occurred and it will occur again.
This is not to say that I alone own the vision, everyone has a say (as we can see here!). But that's the way I have been directing my efforts and will continue to invest my time in that direction.
This raises a good point, perhaps the most important point - actions speak louder than words. If one want things to happen in accordance with your vision, all one needs to do is take action. Sully you made your point with Stony Brook! A great regional event if there ever was one.
Well, I think you've both done a sufficient job of squashing any remaining ideals associated with this board..... Valuable lessons here, folks:
1. never aspire to anything greater than your lowest common denominator
2. it's Juro's show, and we're just along for the ride; anything to the contrary is just paying lip service to the membership (you were right about that one, Sully)
I think Clifford Stoll was right. We should all chuck our computers and go plant tomatoes or something.
Well, everybody - that must be the real story huh!
Excuse me for saying that there is a simple vision in my head too. Too bad you can't seem to allow that to co-exist with everyone else's vision, mission, or objectives without pointing a finger.
But first what IS a vision? What is a mission statement? You imply that they are statements of power, sovereignty, or ego. That's totally incorrect. They are defining directives for <b>WORK</b>.
I never IMPOSE my vision, I simply suggest it and then proceed to work (my ass off, thank you) to try to make it a reality. But you judge this as a sovereignty issue to use against me. I do it for my ego, right?
I believe, for the record, that if anyone has a vision, it's only meaningful if you work to make it reality. Accusations never make visions into reality, they only occlude the potential of things.
So then - what's *YOUR* vision?
02-03-2001, 12:18 PM
I think Juro made no comments about the mission statement until the very end.. correct me if I am wrong. What's all the commotion about. I don't really see any disagreemments here and all we really started with is the concept of a mission statement. If you really want ,point to the chronicles, and the shareing on this board.. That's the Mission statement in action.. why so difficult to sum it up in a statement???
Juro -- As you've demonstrated time and again, it doesn't matter what my vision is or anyone else's. The only vision that really matters is yours. It's time to be honest and just admit that. You're not as good at veiling your ego as you think. Stop asking us for our input and then getting bent out of shape when it doesn't match up with your vision of how things ought to be. It's you're show. Do whatever you want and stop wasting our time with pointless requests for approval! Is this a fishing site or a place to affirm what a wonderful job you've done building..... what exactly is this place, again?
You say "we" and "us" a lot - but for your information YOUR views are contrary to many I have had expressed to me by email and by phone. It's too bad *YOU* feel that way Al.
02-03-2001, 02:09 PM
Absolutely no offense taken – not even the tiniest bit. It usually takes a lot to get me hot under the collar and I almost never like the results when I do. The one time I did get heated on the web I ended up being ashamed and you kindly came to my defense. So again, no hard feelings at all.
I don’t understand the heat in your comment and maybe I’m not grasping the meaning either – and I want to because it is passionate and the passion of the members here is what has made so much of it work.
It seems to me that this IS more than just a fishing site and that was just demonstrated by your most recent and generous actions in the organization of the tying clave. A mere fishing site would not have such activities associated with it.
On to other things.
I don’t think Juro was supplanting his vision/mission with the ones we recently developed. He was merely stating the vision/mission he had when he started this site and he probably still holds to it. By holding, and even sharing aloud and in print, a personal vision/mission for his work with this group he does not negate the vision/mission of the group as a whole.
I don’t know how appropriate this is but I think it is kind so I will go there:
Al, if I could take your words and add just a bit I think I can see your mission with this group:
“Tom and Huck ride again. To be generous with my resources, time and effort.” Your work here has humbled me and I can still picture you and Juro out in your little row boat chasing tunoids with a storm rolling in. The spirits of Tom and Huck were with you that day for sure.
Finally, if there are concerns about the vision and mission we developed there is no reason we can’t back up the process and do some more work. It is not written in stone and in fact should be reviewed on a regular basis to make sure it remains appropriate.
Oh, and thanks Jen, I think your suggestions should be followed.
F*ck Tom and Huck. And long live the Juro cheerleading section.
I'm honored to be among the dissenting minority and ashamed to ever have been part of this.
Over and out!
02-03-2001, 04:55 PM
I've been a minimal contributor to this process to date and although I've found both the method and result quite interesting (since a key employee in my businees has just suggested that 'we' should consider a mission statement) I've had the overall feeling that perhaps we were trying to create a sense of structure when none may have been needed.
Points to consider.
- Yes the forum IS the child of Juro and we have all seen it's scope and function evolve through both our participation and lurking. Juro has always aspired to make the site something that has potential rewards for those who participate, perhaps enough to make it's dollar investment a net/net for him personally and perhaps a way to reward those who have contributed with their individual skills. I sense that Juro ( and please take this in a positive way ) always focuses on a goal that is beyond reach at that moment. That's what drives him. BUT, (from what i can tell) Juro's done all this willingly and it's just been of late that he's looked for ways to get help with the finances. He's entitled to ask, we're entitled to say no. He's also entitled to add whatever 'flavor' or sense of direction to the site that he wants. If we like it, we participate. If we don't we move on (reel-time seems like decades ago dosen't it!). The web e.enables us to be infinitly mobile with our passions.
-If Juro decided he'd had enough and shut the site down tomorrow, I'd understand but I'd recognize the loss of another way to communicate with folks that share some of the same pleasures that are important to me.
- Remember, it IS all about the fishing. I'd much rather be sitting here typing up a recipie for a killer new Albie pattern than putting in my .02 on the politics of an open forum on the web.
- Did I think that it was key to develop a vison/mission statement? No, but I thought that Greg handled it with skill. I even liked the phrasing of the end result. Doesn't mean I had it tattooed on my arm.
I'd fish with any of you guys (and gals, sorry Jen), anytime. Politics has no passion for me and I hope we're not seeing the beginning of the end. Remember that it IS all about the fishing, this is a place where we don't have to worry about Web Development, plumbing supplies, corporate real estate, broadband, hospice care, (I was going to add lawyers but we always have to worry about lawyers), othopedic surgeons, firemen etc.... It's just about the fishing.
02-03-2001, 05:17 PM
Wow,lots of "brutally" honest opinions. I'm glad Sully helped to snap us out of the mode of taking ourselves too serious. I'll bet if you asked any member what we are, you'd get as many different answers. Growing pains, again.
The spirit of the claves was so awesome we tried to transfer it over to the talk realm. In the end we are a bunch of fishermen, who at heart, are dreamers.
I've had my problems seeing the vision, following the changes and the activities. Slow and steady is my approach. I never saw the need of a statement full of lofty words and ideas when it initiates nothing. But I let democracy work. I'm just another opinion.
With the high number of lurkers out there it's too bad we have to air our laundry publically. There should be a bar like gabbing section for those who care about what future this experiment has. I hate the thought of yet another group too. We could simplify a lot here.
So I move to open a board (only if we kill a few of the dead ones)to provide a place where we can scream at eachother whether they think this idea or that is crap.
No need to look like a soap opera to the world. How about we call it the "Brutal Honesty Area for Site Path".
Or maybe not. Just an idea. I wanted to say something, it sucks to see my buds in an uproar.
02-03-2001, 08:21 PM
Bob, that was nice post and good summary of your opinion.. by the way ,you don't have to worry about this lawyer. I look forward to the day when we have only time on the board to post our fishing reports. My honest opinion is, and this may be to lofty and not real, but I would hate to see issues that really fragment this group.. can't remember anything that caused this much during the season.. and we all know why. Greg, you did do a great job in putting it together.
02-03-2001, 09:10 PM
What if.......? We're all on an island together, neither of us can speak..... Would silence be golden?
Now....now, Let's all hold hands and sing, "Boom-by-hah."
Less is more........Lighten up!!!!!
02-03-2001, 09:24 PM
john m, you know the barrister reference was inserted for comic relief only. I can't stay that serious for too long.....
No Worries Mate!
02-03-2001, 11:12 PM
Bob, I should have put a smilly face, I know that's what you were doing, But I always have to try to distigush my self from the rest of the sharks.. P.S. I can remember my mother saying years ago, "John, you can be anything you want.. just don't be a lawyer". I do agree with Ray and the way you put your post was excellent and really summed it up... Time for a fishing post... I was at the Chatham light tonight and my car was stolen by three tough looking stripers who tanted me, they had just beaten up one mean bluefish, and they took my reel and rod to. They took me behind the coast gusrd station ,striped me down ,weighed me and preceeded to lag me right on my hind quarters,laughing and pushing me around. I was really scared... I called the police ,who felt sorry, told me this happens alot in the off season and brought me to a place in Belmont, I think. Anyway, no mercy this summer.. I will Get even.
02-03-2001, 11:30 PM
If it was the XFL you might have been kidnapped by three strippers!
After a fine day and grand dinner with my family, I'm ready to turn the page on this little flare up. After re-reading, I humbly accept those things that were said that were valid and refute quietly in my own head those things that I believe were not. In the end, it's still all about the fishing, and spring will come again.
If there are no further questions, your honor - this case is CLOSED.
02-04-2001, 10:46 AM
Like the old southern city of Atlanta......
The flames have been extinguished this day.......
Most everything may have burnt to the ground.....
Time to build a new city and a future, but on firmer footing.
But it's going to take team work and all of us to succeed.
02-04-2001, 11:23 AM
My gut is telling me that there is a bit too much haste to bury this thing. Yes, by all means, end the nastiness, and end the thread. But sweeping things under the carpet will lead to their return. There's something to this. The typical fogginess is hanging over us again. Is the mission statement now a sore subject? Is it aborted? Also I've seen no response to my suggestion that we have a members only suggestion area/board. How can a request like that be ignored? Are we a club? I say no we are not and we should stop saying so unless we decide to act like one. We continually try to grow but have not defined how it's to be decided. If it is the owner who decides A,B,and c fine-define that. And if the members are allowed to define X,Y, and Z fine- define that too. I can't see the continued input of donations and time by private members without definition in these areas. It will lead to problems believe me. I firmly believe this lack of definition keeps coming back in different forms over and over again. Every flame up this winter can somehow be traced back to this undercurrent.
Otherwise, if people can't stand a day or 3 of bickering we are truly weak. The current formula is not sustainable without a continued turnover of the core group. Tell me if you disagree. I guess I fear chaos, yet it's to Juro's credit that this thread (or any) has not been yanked. It good that we can evan have this discussion. This is not the time to be babies who whine about nasty threads, they happen sometimes. It is the time to stand up and forge a better thing out of what we started. This, like many things in life, is a test of our character. If it's just about fishing let's have the guts to make it so. IF it's about additional things, let's make them work along with the "fishing board" aspect and not be overbearing.
I really want to respond to your post but there are many questions in there and I want to carefully figure out what is being suggested before I say anything that causes an uproar. I have printed it out and will read it very carefully.
I see you are suggesting a members-only board, which would not be difficult to do although the current set-up is everyone who signs up for FlyTalk is a member and donations are voluntary. So in effect we already have a members board. You'd have to explain exactly what this would mean and I would be glad to do whatever makes sense.
I think it's been clearly stated since day one that there are no dues, just donations. The membership donations just say "I want to help keep the momentum in 2001" and maybe even "thanks for covering the site thru last year out of pocket" and "here's something to help pay for fly lines for writers and awards for contributors", etc. They are, and have always been, voluntary. They are not control elements, but offerings of what it takes to keep any organization going. I have and will do am honest and conscientious job of it always. I'd be happy to review the ledger sheet with anyone. For that matter if anyone would volunteer as treasurer I would be elated. Be warned that business accounts require quarterly filing with the IRS and it currently qualifies as taxable income to me (another reason non-profit is very attractive). It's not enough to be a problem at this point, but it's something to think about. Real "clubs" have treasurers, presidents, vice-presidents, activity directors, and a long list of people who own responsibilities like these. If we go "real club" members would be appointed or voted into positions. It would give me a huge break to tell you the truth. But I am not going to try to force any such decision, it would come from concensus.
I am going to go read this with a cup of coffee and will post the results of the careful read. I will also give you a call Terry, because there is a whole lot that can be misread in typed words.
One last thought on this reply - the direction of this organization moves ahead with actions, not words. Clear suggestions and proposals speak louder than questions. I am not sure how many others share your "undercurrent" views, but I will read this carefully to see if I can come up with suggestions and proposals to help the situation reach clarity. To me that's the only positive direction we can take issues like this.
02-04-2001, 03:49 PM
Thank you for the careful consideration. I can clarify at least one thing I meant. That is about the board I proposed. It should be for those who <i>want</i> to be involved in the sites future-not out here for peoples pleasure reading. I'm sure there are plenty of lurkers having a good laugh at our debates. It could be open to anyone upon email request. I also agree that there should be a consensus. Who knows, it could be a stupid idea. If nobody else backs it up, fine, we'll let it go. It just seems to be common sense to me at this juncture. Either way, I'm here.
BTW: I am in no way questioning the money/accounting stuff. The dollar ammounts are small and Juro has been forthright with all of it to date. Not an issue to me. Gotta run, I hopped on a poor defenseless pc at a friends house.
02-04-2001, 04:15 PM
I think it is a good idea Terry and I really liked your post.
That's a great suggestion, let's give it a try. I will have it up by morning. Please send email to email@example.com if you are interesting in participating in brainstorming discussions for this site in a separate discussion area.
02-05-2001, 01:57 PM
I think Sully's post should be posted as his member profile! http://www.flyfishingforum.com/images/flytalk/Wilk.gif" border="0" align="middle"> <img src="http://www.flyfishingforum.com/images/flytalk/Happy.gif