Rio Lines [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: Rio Lines

09-09-2003, 06:35 PM
I purchased a Windcutter and like lots of others, found it close to useless for the in-close work where at times, 75% of my action happens.

Will the mid-spey handle the in-close work as well as an off-the-rack line like a WFF Cortland 444?

Thanks for any feedback out there.

michael j
09-20-2003, 08:52 PM
Howdy from Clearwater/Snake country.
I just switched four systems from the Windcutter to the Mid-Spey and it is my opinion that the later will not achieve your objective.
I am enjoying the Mid thus far with the floating head since it's prime dry fly season here but have no experience with it with any of its sinking heads.
Summary: Does not cast well close-in.
Question: What does?


09-20-2003, 09:29 PM
Well, this depends on your definition of "close in". My definition is maybe 30 or 40 feet up to 50 or 60 feet, mostly angled down and across so much less really in terms of river width.

The lines that come in the length range of Windcutter, Airflo Delta, Hardy Mach I, Rio Scandinavian Heads, Loop Adapted, etc - are actually much better "close in" than the midspey / long delta / etc, which are better for longer casting and line control with less shooting and looping in the fingers of running line.

If you mean "even closer in", then I would argue you might not need a spey rod for such short distances (30 feet or less) - just spey cast with a single hander and double taper, that should cover any water less than appropriate for a windcutter IMHO.

.02, good luck!

michael j
09-20-2003, 11:31 PM
I agree with your comments.
I was actually responding to another members inquiry.
I have not fished all the lines to which you refer; I am fairly involved w/ RIO; not to say there is not a better mouse trap but these lines work for me.
I rarely need to fish inside 30 feet and when I do...I can make it work.
Smaller rivers = shorter and lighter rods, for me at least.
I have very much been enjoying the SAGE 7136 and for the rare trip to the Grand Ronde, my 6126 gets the nod.
Fishing the newer SAGE 5120 for trout...much fun.

Good luck to you as well.


09-21-2003, 05:47 AM
I too was responding to Marketic, the sequence must have given you the impression I was responding to your post - which I agree with as well.

Thanks for the follow-up, it sounds like you have the situation totally under control.

09-22-2003, 12:25 AM

Thanks for the feedback on lines. "In close" for me means beneath the rod tip out to 50 feet or so. The Windcutter is impressive beyond 70 - 80 feet but I found it to be frustrating for anything closer.

The jist of my original question was: is there a line on the market that is a happy medium between a shooter (which I think is a fair characterization of the Windcutter) and a typical WF or DT line?

I had several days last year where I found them (in the same hole) 20 feet off the beach then 120 feet out in the middle. The Rio line got the long ones, the Cortland 444 WF got the one's in close, but I had to switch reels back and forth to mine that vein which got me thinking that there must be a line out there that would cover both bases.

The type of cast involved or the style of rod used are immaterial to me. It's the lines and what their characteristics are that are of interest. My experience with most of the newer lines (with the exception of the Windcutter) is zilch so any feedback at all is music to my ears.

And thanks for the warning about the mid-spey and its short-comings. I've become allergic to expensive lines that after a few outings end up in a shoe-box because they didn't turn out to deliver the goods I'd hoped for...

michael j
09-22-2003, 09:03 AM
One last thought...although I am not sure that any one rod/line is going to handle 20-50 feet and 120 feet as well:
Give RIO a call.
I find them always very helpful.
You might also explore their website and the link to line specs, perhaps that might help.

Good Luck.

09-22-2003, 11:09 AM
Get a double taper line ... probably one up from the rods line rating. I've also heard that the SA 'steelhead taper' is a good close in working line. have a few places I fish on the upper Rogue that at low water conditions (now) a regular spey line is over kill as the fish will be sitting almost at your toes. Ergo, on goes the DT.

But, given DT lines are cheaper than dirt, as compared to many others (and you can just use a 'regular length' one handed rod line for this work) your not 'bucks up' buying one..

09-22-2003, 11:44 AM
Grain weight matching and rod actions not withstanding, that Rio Grandspey sure has the sweetest front taper! It casts well with hardly any line out. Also the Mach I Hardy line has me duly impressed lately, but it's not necessarily your long distance carrier based on what you say for double duty.

09-22-2003, 08:25 PM
Thanks again for the feedback, Genlemen.

Juro, I've indeed heard the Grand Spey might be a good choice. But I've also heard it's clunky if you're not careful properly matching line weight to rod.

I have a Sage 7141 that sings with a Cortland WF 9 F but I'd be hard-pressed to get that entire line out past the guides (nevertheless, it's a mystery to me why Sage designates this rod a "7").

Manufactuer's recommendations notwithstanding, what would be the most sensical line weight to choose when considering the Rio GS or the SA XLT for that specific rod?

Thanks for any input out there as D-Day is approaching and I'm compelled to make a decision soon.

09-23-2003, 02:18 PM
The GS and XLT are fine lines; however, they are very long belly lines with bellies of 90+ feet. They are great for fishing from 50 feet out to as far as you are able to cast them (well over 100 feet for those who have learned how to cast them).

That said, they will frustrate you if you try to cast them 20 to 50 feet.

Perhaps, you should look into the new RIO Scandanavian Head or the RIO Skagit line. The Scandanavian line has a head of 44 ft (11 feet shorter than the Windcutter), which should be more in line with what you are looking for to cast 20 to 50 feet and still be able to cast 100 feet when needed.

The other alternative available is to get an 8/9/10 Windcutter with interchangeable tips and take out the mid section (tip 2). This will provide you with a sharter head line that will have sufficient weight to cast on your Sage 7141 at short distances.