: Alaska Bound
06-12-2003, 10:40 PM
I have a client who is off to Alaska for Sockeye.
I whipped up a few Sockeye Charlies for him.
Good fly for fish other Salmon also
06-12-2003, 11:48 PM
Only other one that was Sok-eye Candies was a vairation on the Willie Gun: skip the black and just a 4-5x hook done in yellow and red.
Only time I've been too tired too reel in another fish. Cast .... swing .... hold on for dear life ................ SMASH.
Lots of guys just tie a bare hook on leader and chuck it out and mend it so it drifts crossways in the current :devil: . I guess it feels less like lining if there is a cool fly out there though.
:tsk_tsk: :tsk_tsk: :tsk_tsk: :tsk_tsk: - these are all for me :whoa: - I'm a bad boy for not being able to hold my tongue - but here on the Fraser a huge totally unscrupulous fishery for sockeye has developed.
Proponents say it is not snagging - but I've been there. The gear guys who catch the most fish have small corkies (colour doesn't matter) and 10-12' leaders. They huck this out and bottom bounce it downstream as the schools of fish swim up the muddy river. Sure, they are hooked basically in the mouth - but it is the long leader running through their mouths that drags it in there - they aren't biting it.
Lest we flyflishers think we are somehow above lining sockeye - I believe that fly fishing is even more deadly. One day before the hordes discovered the fishery and there was still a little room to be found on a fastwater bar (don't bother looking today - even with a boat) I "hooked" about 50 sockeye. It was a blast, but the 30' type IV shooting head I was using was in fact a 30' leader swinging across the mouths of the fish. Man I thought I was a hero. The reality was I probably "lined" 90% of the fish.
In the past 6-7 years this fishery has turned into a total gong show. Many who still see fishing as a sport are in favour of shutting the whole embarassing thing down. Or at the very least limiting the the length of the leader (tough to do with a fly line).
Russ, I mean this as no offense to your flies or your friend. As you can tell that this is one of those "soap-box" issues that every once in a while I seem to get an uncontrollable urge to rant about. :eyecrazy:
In re-reading this thread I notice an error on my part. Actually I meant Aaron above - not Russ - I guess turning 49 is starting to show in more ways than one - sorry guys.
06-14-2003, 01:43 AM
No offense taken! In fact, I am in total agreement with you. I never fish flies for salmon or steelhead that have any weight added to them whatsoever - no lead wire underbody, no lead eyes, no bead heads, no cone heads, etc. (the biggest reasons I don't tie or fish Intruders).
I have seen some disgusting examples of lining through the use of type 4 or faster sinking tips or heads, or the use of long leaders and large lead eyes, huge amounts of lead added to the underbodies of flies, and even the use of large lead-head jigs along with floats or just plain old toss it out and let it swing around (through the fishes mouths exactly like you posted) until a fish is hooked. Then the fisherman gets to go tell others how s/he has discovered a techniques to get them to "bite" a lot.
There is a fellow who lives in Port Angeles that fishes this way during low summer flows with large, heavily weighted Kaufman Stones using a floating line, a leader of 15 to 20 feet, and simple lining the fish with the leader. He catches a lot of summer runs doing this; but I will not fish with him because it is snagging pure and simple, just like you said.
Tyler, I would like to see Washington State ban the use of weighted flies for salmon and steelhead fishing because of the problem you spoke about.
06-14-2003, 11:37 AM
I posted some flies to use to fish for Salmon.
And that was it.
In 26 years I lived in Alaska we fished Sockeye one way.
And that was by sight fishing with short leaders and floating lines
The style is simple fishing fast running clear streams you simple get the fly to the fish.
Sockeye to not move to the fly you must have the fly close and in front of the fish.
On a good day you would get four or five fish.
The lining fad came many years later by people who were into numbers and these people as Kush explained will do any thing for the fish.
There are a great many good honest fishermen who fish Sockeye every year without lining them.
Many guides would never stoup to such low line as to let a client snag fish (line).
:tsk_tsk: :tsk_tsk: :tsk_tsk: Kush a soapbox is a terrible thing to waste .
:confused:Russ the weighted fly debate for Salmon will go on for ever,
06-15-2003, 03:38 AM
i agree with kush.l live on the kenai peninsula and the ugliest sight, besides some of the dancers at goodtime charlies,is seeing a couple of hundred guys lined up on the banks of the kenai elbow to elbow ripping the water.i am not saying all reds are lined but i would bet 90 % are.:eyecrazy:
I immediately felt bad about my rant - hence the :tsk_tsk: :tsk_tsk: :tsk_tsk:'s on myself - you kind of got blind-sided - and you are right - you didn't deserve my rant - you just posted some nice flies! So I will start with a public apology to you.
Obviously I have a burr under my saddle re lining (sockeye in particular). The thing that really gets me is the unforunate fact that all these "fishermen" now think this is the way to fish. Most of them have their introduction to "sport-fishing" in this gong show.
Then there's the collateral damage, these lining techniques are now finding their way into "mainstream" steelheading. The Vedder is "grad school" for the successful sockeye snaggers. They sit in one spot and cast their 6-10' leaders hour after hour into the same slots until they "hook" one. Now they are a :eyecrazy: steelheader! We have had some of the most productive spring chinook spots closed due to hordes of "liners". The fist-fights and even a knifing go well beyond proving my point
Aaron, I didn't intend to target you at all, I just went off on what I see as a blight on the sport of fishing. I've seen photos of the Russian River in Alaska and that made the connection for my soap box rant. I probably should have started a new thread. Damn, where is OC and his "Ethics Police" when I need them?
:devil: :tsk_tsk: :D :eyecrazy: :hehe: :smokin:
06-16-2003, 12:00 AM
i too was not targeting any thread poster.just talking about red fishing(lining)gets my blood boiling as i see it live on the kenai and russian rivers and it is a truly ugly sight!!!the damage to the stream banks is unbelievable and has become a major concern of fish and game.:)
06-16-2003, 02:06 AM
I should have been clear that I was not ranting on you, and I now offer my sincerest appology for not making that clear. Your flies are very nicely tied and well composed as usual displaying your well-developed tying skills. You are correct that my preference for unweighted flies is just that, a preference and not something that is more ethical than weighted flies.
I have seen some disgusting examples of heavily weighted flies with long leaders being used to line fish (for example targeting chinook at the mouth of Deer Creek when there is no legal chinook season on the Stilly) and this overshadowed my sense of civility and fair play.
06-16-2003, 02:04 PM
Flies don't line fish, people line fish. :)
06-20-2003, 08:28 PM
I must admit I was somewhat overwhelmed to see everyone maligning (no pun intended) the Sockeye.
The biggest trouble with fly-fishing for the Sockeye is that they do not readily come to the fly.
Unlike Steelhead and other salmon; the Red (Sockeye) just do not come to the fly.
Perseverance and patience is the key to game.
It is like fishing a traditional dry for Steelhead verses a skated fly.
One is going to be hard and the other is going to be very difficult.
But that is another thread.
06-21-2003, 10:48 PM
Most people won't admit it or are oblivious to it, but much of the steelhead fishery in the Great Lakes is unfortunately based on lining/snagging fish. A strike indicator, twelve foot leader, small nymph/egg and only 2-4 feet of water, fishing over fish you can see tends to lead to fish biting not of their own accord. The bait/float guys do it too so I am not ragging on fly fisherman alone.
I don't know what is worse, that it seems to be accepted, especially where guiding exists, or that many people don't know they are doing anything wrong.
10-14-2003, 01:29 AM
Two weeks ago while out fishing I stopped for a snack at a little shop, they had a notice posted and the proprietor of the shop was mentioning to EVERYONE who came through the door, see the ammendment to the fishing Reg???? No leader shall be more than 3ft long (I believe it was 3 feet) it was directed at drift fishermen.
I thought it was a good step towards conservation, but I'll admit that I am a cheap SOB when it comes to loosing flies. By law I'm supposed to break off any fish I haven't hooked in the mouth but as the day wears on and my fly box becomes more and more empty it's hard to keep breaking them off. I've tried limiting my leader to less than 3 feet, but it doesn't make any difference that I've noticed, the fish still get hung up.... lets face it, between the Pinks and the Chum, it's hard to get your fly to the fish you want to catch...
Anyway, I'd like to see more done for conservation, and I'd like to learn to tie my flies alot quicker so I don't get screwy about loosing them.
10-14-2003, 04:42 PM
could someone post a recipe those look like they would work steelhead and browns here in the great lakes