FB Deep Eel--Part 2 [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

: FB Deep Eel--Part 2


striblue
04-20-2003, 12:30 PM
This may be the best approach for now to eliminate the roll... I don't like it and will continue to work on hiding the clouser .

juro
04-20-2003, 12:44 PM
John -

Do you think the weight reduces roll better up front or back at the bend? I would have thought the bend. Interesting point either way...

striblue
04-20-2003, 01:01 PM
Well, with the ones I tyed with the clouser hidden ,the clouser was set back near the bend... the surrounding material is causing some instability... that is the spreader and epoxy... I tyed one with epoxy on the bottom and Soft body on top... reduced roll a little but not enough... this fly needs to move along the bottom with a confidence that the hook will ride up. If it doesn't the hook will snag not to mention get dull after two strips.... Maybe a paint to the clouser to blend it.. a dull white on the bootom half and olive on the top half... just to camoflag it a bit... It now looks like the fat lip my wife wants to give me as I strip this thought the tub.

Smcdermott
04-20-2003, 01:04 PM
John,
It looks to me like there may be an issue with the amount of buoyant material at the bottom of the hook. Could you start with a bend back, jiggie head (maybe underneath one of the spreaders) and keep more wing material on top? Not sure if that defeats the whole FB premise or even if it would work.

Sean

striblue
04-20-2003, 02:19 PM
Sean.. thanks for the comment... this one in this picture, settles perfect on its clouser head and stays hook up,,, the weight is perfectly distributed on this one.. very similar to other clousers.. there is also the same amount of epoxy on top as on the bottom so the clouser weight offsets it just right.. this is why I a can't seem to do it with the hidden clouser... as of yet.

Philster
04-22-2003, 09:11 PM
Try a 60 degree bend jig hook if you are having trouble with keeping the up up and the down down. Gamakatsu, eagle claw, mustad, and others make them. They allow you to use much less weight, often just bead chain eyes, but still do the "clouser thing". If you want to hide the eyes, they also let you wrap lead wire on the shank, but the design of the hook still makes it ride hook point up. They're made for conventional boys so they are dirt cheap too!

Eddie
04-22-2003, 11:27 PM
John, try the hooks I gave you (EC 413). They could be the ticket.

striblue
04-22-2003, 11:30 PM
Yes.. Thanks Philster.. and Eddie.. I already pulled those hooks out... My only question , and one I had asked Bob Pink as well is do those hooks allow the fly to "swim" or will it "jig".. I am looking for a swiming fly.. one that moves along a general straight line..like a clouser would do.. What I mean is ,I did not want the up and down motion of a jig. I am looking for the motion of .say, Juro's deep eel...

Philster
04-23-2003, 02:21 PM
The answer to how it swims is "it's up to you". It's called a jig hook because it's made to be put in a mold, and have lead poured in to make jigs. The hook alone will act exactly like a keel hook if you don't put an eighth ounce of toxic metal on it. Lots of weight will make anything jig of course, but it takes very little to keep those hooks point up. Also keep ALL, or as close to all of the materials (at least the boyant ones) on top of your pattern. If the materials are up high, it often only takes some epoxy on the head to keep the fly right, and that would swim well indeed. Of course that all assumes you are using a loop knot...

FishHawk
04-24-2003, 06:04 AM
One thing I noticed your eye goes right to the lead barbell. Why not paint it white or put the eyes on the lead barbell. Just a suggestion.
FishHawk

rel1
04-24-2003, 07:37 AM
John- Have you thought about trying another style of hook for youe FB sandeel. The hook I was thinking about is the Eagle Claw #413. It is a 60* jig hook seemingly very popular on the west coast. I've tried using it for Ray's flies to eliminate the fouling of the bucktail and it worked and the hook point rides up all the time. Just my $.02. Ron

OC
04-25-2003, 03:00 PM
John,

Like always your flies are beautiful and should be considered true working art. Where you put the barbell seems just fine from my bit of experience fishing a similiar eel pattern in Quincy Bay over the muscle beds. I've not had any problems with hanging up with the barbell in that exact postion. Every time I thought I was hung up it was a striper and I think that they must pin the fly to the bottom as they grab hold. As a kid we used to see a lot of those small European eels about a foot long even smaller sometimes. It seems that they would swim 2 or three feet about 2 inches off the bottom then stop and float down those two inches and rest on the bottom. When they stopped their body gets real s-curved maybe for support on the bottom . They wouldn't stay on the bottom but a few seconds and then move a few more feet. When I fish that pattern I strip it instead of jigging it leting it sit for a second or two on the bottom. When I first started to do this i was concerned with hanging up and jigged it across the beds but there was no need and just making slow strips and stops worked far better as far as hooking fish. Also Up north of the Cape I use a much darker color back, a deep olive or even black. I think that you will find the barbell close to the eye of the hook ok for you.

Hope your fish start showing up real soon, sounds like you all need some fishing time after this last winter.

striblue
04-25-2003, 03:13 PM
Thanks OC.. that's good practical information.... I am still trying to determine whether I want a steady swim along the bottom OR a swim and jig.. as thought the eel was stoping and feeding,... not sure yet... may end up with several types to experiment with.. it maybe that the eel gets finished at mid-season or later.

OC
04-25-2003, 03:44 PM
You know maybe what those small eels were doing every few feet were stopping and feeding. Good observation on your part John. If you want a lot more action how about maraboo? I do a night setup the same as the feather eel with barbell and hook the same. I tie it in black maraboo only about 6 inches long or longer if I can find long enough maraboo with just a bit of red maraboo under the hook. The swiming action is not nearly as stiff. I use it at night and it has picked up the biggest stripers on a fly rod I have ever landed. Again I just strip it and not jig it and I seem to get way more fish on that way. Maybe the jigging action is way to bouncy and not as real looking. One more thing , I fish this eel now only on slack low tide and the first 10 or fifteen minutes of the incoming. Never have hooked a fish on moving water. Got to wonder if these smaller eels take cover when the current gets too strong for them to swim in. The fun is in the experimenting.

Eddie
04-25-2003, 05:49 PM
I have tied a couple of lengths of lead on the bottom of the 413's shank and it does not jig.

striblue
04-25-2003, 08:05 PM
Eddie...say again... can you be more specific... I have those hooks thanks to you... can you just explain alittle.. I will tye one tonight on they hook with lead as you describe.

Eddie
04-25-2003, 08:19 PM
The fly will ride hook point up, so the "bottom of the shank" will be oposite the point. I have tied on a couple lengths of lead paralell to the shank on the underside. Like a keel. When you use this hook, be careful not to close the gape. I know that the Varvias hooks have a proprtionately wider gape, and you put most of the "feather brain" on top(where the gape would be on the 413), so you might be limmited to a smaller fly with the hooks I gave you. I look forward to seeing the results.
I also supect that the origional fly you posted will have great action.

striblue
04-25-2003, 10:37 PM
Eddie... I tried something else and It WORKED!... I moved the clouser lead back under the hook point..like some of the bonefish flies... This allowed me to finish the head like the FB...AND hide the clouser with the body feathers... In the bath tub with about 3 feet of line the hook dropped to the bottom and swam ...hook up with every kind of Jerk I did, The epoxy can be put ALL around the head and I think it acts as a counter weight and keeps the nose level,,, no hoping or jigging,,, This really has me going now... it opens the door for a full array of sand eel sizes and feathers... The hook was a Mustad...now I have not tied it with the varivas... but the thing is, I did not want to make it so it is hard to tye either... so with the dumbell back it is very easy to tye... I will use Unique hair or super hair for the insides instead of buck tail ,,, maybe 3/4 of the way back.... I will use the eagle claw as well...

Eddie
04-26-2003, 09:38 AM
There is an interesting fly on the dan blanton web site called the SST. I think it has the weight hanging off the Back (behnd) the hook. This suposedly gves it a deadly action.

doogue
04-26-2003, 03:15 PM
The SST is an interesting fly. Not as pretty as John's ties but it may have some great action. I am going to have to tie one simply to see if it really has a side to side action when stripped. This may be a sluggo fly!

Has anyone ever tied/fished this fly?

Thanks,

Mike