: Ok Hal, summer run fly swap
04-19-2003, 09:09 PM
It's my turn to host another swap. So, how about a summerrun fly swap? I figured we could have flies in by mid May, and then I can turn around and have them out by first of June.
So, what do you all say. This will be the main sign up board. I will post on the GL board as well. So, what do you think?
Here's the rules for any of you. First off, you can tie any freshwater summerrun steelhead fly you want. BUT, they must all be the SAME pattern. Different hook sizes are fine, but please don't change up patterns so everyone gets the same fly. Right now, no limit on tyers. But, will probably close it down at 12. You pay to send flies to me, I'll pay return shipping. Just use a reusable mailer please (padded envelope, small box, etc).
So, who wants a summerrun swap. This will give you about 3 weeks to tie up patterns. Standard rules, tie up one for each participant, plus one extra for the swapmeister :D . I like to send complete packages, so like to enclose one of your own flies in return package. If you'd like, can send any extras as well. :)
04-19-2003, 10:41 PM
OK count me in. I feel better already having another fly swap to tie for.
04-19-2003, 11:00 PM
I'm up for the challenge...
04-19-2003, 11:00 PM
I'll do another "batch" of my Rogue 'experimental' patterns.
04-19-2003, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by fredaevans
I'll do another "batch" of my Rogue 'experimental' patterns.
You know...that gives me an idea!!!
I always, as I think most everyone does, tie proven patterns and/or patterns I have confidence in for swaps...
It would be intresting, if we all sat down and tied up flies that we have been playing with...or our latest greatest creation that may not have even had a chance to prove itself yet.
You take these patterns, pass them around to many differnt anglers of differnt abilities fishing differnt watersheds and we could very well stumble upon the next latest greatest fly since sliced bread!
04-19-2003, 11:43 PM
You actually read my mind. I was thinking of doing one like that. Figured it would better for winterruns, since most people get pretty outlandish with winter patterns. Maybe next swap???
04-20-2003, 03:59 AM
I have up for a little tying my own same self.
Fred's Fancy should be a good one.
04-20-2003, 06:51 PM
Can we make it the third week of May ? Looks like we will have fishing for our late run winter runs into mid may at least ? :D
If you know where to go of course.
Our summer runs may be in by June if we get some rain and if you know where to go.
P.S. I am not telling either.
04-20-2003, 07:50 PM
"It would be intresting, if we all sat down and tied up flies that we have been playing with...or our latest greatest creation that may not have even had a chance to prove itself yet."
Some of the best 'stuff' I've got in my box (this weekend excepted .... SHEESH! Thousands of the buggers in the upper river and I must have made a 1,000 casts yesterday/today for One, count 'um, one 4" trout. Go figure?)
Great stuff that has really worked (Malcom's "Willie Guns," Aaron's 'Rock Worms,' etc., are flys I'd never seen, let alone have a chance to try. I think you've got a cool idea; lets all let our immaginations run amuck.
04-20-2003, 07:53 PM
Mine is always in that mode, the question is will I be willing to go public with some of these fly patterns ?
04-20-2003, 08:49 PM
ok if sparky is in i'm in i need another one of thoes shank bunny leeches.. I'll tie my purple and pink Bicolor. A pattern i designed a few years ago and that scored firsttime out on the Grand Ronde
04-20-2003, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by roballen
ok if sparky is in i'm in i need another one of thoes shank bunny leeches..
Did you like that little rascal I tied up???
I dont know if I am in yet...I tie out of necassity and at times, its tough to get myself motivated to tie! :(
04-20-2003, 09:41 PM
At my age, if I can wip up a dozen flys in a couple of evenings, so can you.
You're "love life" can't be that good .... could it? Snigger, snigger.:devil:
04-21-2003, 01:07 AM
OK, I'm in. If you don't mind "old standards".
Mine will be 'tried and true' summer run favorites for the Deschutes.
04-21-2003, 01:31 AM
Hal, can make third week of may no sweat. Most good summerrun fishing on rivers I run start mid June.
Ok, how about this. How about sending two sets of flies? One is a tried and true, one experiemental. I know I tie alot of flies, and can get them done in about 2 hours max. But some take a bit longer. So let me know what you all want to do. I'm game either way. If you want to only do tried and true, we'll do that.
04-21-2003, 01:43 AM
Will you make it down 'south' to the Sandy Clave? If so I'll personally hand you my contributions, either 'tried and true' and experimental, or the single dozen, you decide, Swapmeister.
As you may know, I'll be there dishing out lunch and hopefully meeting the other Forum members. Let me know.
04-21-2003, 01:51 AM
I'm hoping to go. As of right now I'd say it's a good possibility I'll be there. If I am, would be perfectly fine to just give to me directly. If I'm still in current condition, will only be able to watch, won't be able to swing a spey rod :( . We'll see.
04-21-2003, 01:59 AM
a timely recovery, Jerry.
We will look forward to seeing you and if you are still 'laid up', a chair awaits at our hospitality trailer, OK?
04-21-2003, 09:17 PM
Just got back from the Easter weekend and a summer fly swap with experimental flies sounds great. Now I have to select a fly. Anyways, I'm in.
04-24-2003, 07:58 PM
Only a few have voted. But looks good right now for experimental flies. I'll keep it open for a couple more days, then lock it up.
04-24-2003, 08:03 PM
Whats the definition of "experimental" we are using for this ?
(P.S. Sorry but I work with a bunch of corporate lawyers every day and each word is weighed heavily in most of formal legal documents, etc. Most times to a ludicrous degree also.)
04-24-2003, 08:11 PM
couldn't have been 'squeezed' out of you. Sit at your bench with a good (LARGE) glass of Merlot (a Cab. or heavier Red would even be better) and say to self: "Self, look at all that junk, wonder if I did that would anything be interested?"
Some of the best stuff I use on the Rogue has been after a couple of stong single malts. Amazing what works ... and some zero's. But, like dating, you never know if you'll "score!" unless you try something.
Actually, you'd be surprised what comes to mind with a few basic's kept in mind. What colour works? A specific configuration? What fish are we hunting? Etc.
Now get to work!:D
04-24-2003, 08:51 PM
Any fly that you've had in your head, and you've either just tied and never used. Basically a new fly. I know I use some SH muddlers, but have had a few variations in my head I'd like to try. So, I'd say anything that YOU think is new, that you've been wanting to tie, but never had. I would also add, this would be a fly you HAVE NOT seen before. I basically would expect crazy flies (similar to one I posted that my daughter had thought up, but caught fish, and was NOT anything you'd normally use for summerruns).
04-25-2003, 12:12 AM
All right, I tried to avoid jumping into this, but I cannot hold back...must tie...must swap...honeydooos can wait...
I don't think you hit the limit of 12, right? I really want to join this...standards or wilds or both.
Count me in!
(Fortunately for y'all, I'm a much better tier than speycaster!)
04-25-2003, 11:51 AM
OK, I am thinking about it.
Is a nymph acceptable ?
04-26-2003, 02:47 AM
I use nymphs quite a bit. I use what I call "trout flies on steroids" for my summerrun fishing. :hehe: But, tie what you'd like. It's experimental so far, so anything goes.
04-28-2003, 11:52 AM
All I need to know is how many.
I have a deerhead marabou muddler that would be good for summer steelhead in a size 4 or 6 I will offer for the current flyswap. I'm going to do a dozen just for myself, even a few Tiger Musky size. Mylar body, marabou wing topped with several strands of peacock, a few strands of flash at the sides. It's a good shiner imitation. Lots of stripping action from the feathers with an eye catching glint.
For an experimental, could color this yellow red yellow for a Marabou Finn streamer without the deer head, but with a throat and eyes. I don't know why, but I do know trout and salmon will chomp down on a Mickey Finn like the colors hurt their eyes and the're mad at it.
If the idea is still out there about doing both a traditional and an
experimental, I would do a Marabou Deerhead Shiner and a Marabou Finn Streamer.
Slow water unweighted prefered? 2X strong for sure!!
04-28-2003, 05:40 PM
I would like to participate in the swap if you have room.
04-28-2003, 07:10 PM
Nice to see you made it over here Doktor T. I'll probably put this baby to bed here in a day or so. Will tally totals needed and throw out deadline.
Right now, looks like the mass wants only an experimental fly swap. I haven't checked the poll lately, so will double check.
04-29-2003, 06:37 PM
Ok, I'm about to go through this and get a final count and email those who were undecided to see if they either want to join or not. BUT, would you guys who are involved in swap please vote on the poll I have. Right now it's almost a dead even tie right now. Well, only 6 votes, that's not hard to do. LOL. But democracy will win out over all. This way I can say exactly what kind of flies we'll be swapping. Right now looks like experimental, but could go to a double fly swap fast. In end, what the total vote dictates the swap.
Thanks. And please start tying. I'd like to have ONE swap finalize on time for once. :hehe: So far closest I've come is 2 weeks out. Some guys are so quick about having their flies in weeks before deadline, not fair to make them wait because you've procrastinated.
05-01-2003, 06:14 PM
I'm locking her up. Wow, we have an even 12 tyers (that's if Nrthfrk16 stays in it lol)
Here's the rules on swap. By the poll, it was majority tying experimentals. I have 12 people that signed up, so including the fly for swapmeister, the count of flies is 13 to be tied (and feel free to send any extras you want :hehe: ) They can be tied on different sized hooks, but ALL must be the SAME pattern. No variations on colors please. Want every tyer to get the same pattern. I would like your flies to be here by the end of May (giving you four weeks to tie). NO EXTENSIONS!!!! If I don't get flies by end of May, I will box up what I have, and send the extra flies people have tied back to them. Here's the list of people who said they were in throughout the post and my address below.
Me of course lol
Fly bob, not sure if I'll be making the drive down to clave. I've been in alot of pain, and driving a long ways may not be in the stars for me that weekend. It'll be a last minute thing if I go.
Send 13 flies to
5085 NE 37th St
Tacoma, WA 98422
I'll cover all postage back to you all, just ask that you ship in padded envelopes/boxes I can reuse. Thanks.
05-01-2003, 11:12 PM
My experimental steelhead hair wing pattern which I tied a few of last week before my michigan trip this week caught a steelhead within its first 5 drifts !!
I hope it is still acceptable to use for the swap ?
The fishing was so good I said what the heck lets put the experimental pattern on as Wednesday was a dark cloudy day and I consider it a dark day pattern.
It worked, 8-9 LB wild buck.
Check out the link to the pictures in "The Streak Continues" thread of the trips results. Links to Michigan Steelhead Trip - 2003 web shots album I constructed, of some of the pictures I took.
05-01-2003, 11:16 PM
Jerry sorry you are suffering, hope that you can get to the clave, but, if not, I'll send the flies along shortly after.
Thanks and keep us all posted on the swap, OK?
05-04-2003, 05:28 PM
Just a report to keep the string alive. I've tied up about 4 interations of my Marabou Micky with more and less flash, and several different bodies and will commit to the final recipe soon. As soon as the first is finished, I will post a pix along with the recipe.
Are we having fun yet???
05-09-2003, 10:55 PM
Wow, I think this is the FIRST swap with Hal that he wasn't first. Just got my batch from speybum. Damned, what a guy. Have to throw in a few extra flies (though with his business he doesn't need them lol).
But, great start. Now, rest of you start up. LOL
05-10-2003, 11:00 AM
I am still in my post successful steelheading trip emotional wind down stage after last weeks trip. Plan to start working on them this weekend. Who knows they could be in the mail this week if I do not run out of some key material for them.
05-14-2003, 11:13 PM
Just sent a reminder email/PM to all of you who posted on here that I have on the list above for the swap. Only 2 I didn't send to, they already have their flies in. Just a reminder. Would love to have all flies out and remailed by first of June.
05-14-2003, 11:51 PM
Two major meeting left this week (and I've got to do a "picnic dinner" for the bunch ... hell being reasonably good with a Barbie); off to the Sandy Clave (first weekend the JoanMeister and I have spent away from home since last July) and to the VICE! (No, that wasn't a mis-type.)
Have a cool new pattern to pass around.
05-15-2003, 12:55 AM
Not sure about by the end of next week, but by the end of next weekend for sure. Project at work is dragging and I've got to get it done before I can play. Then I'm heading to the Sandy Clave, and I'm hoping to sneak a couple midweek days next week on the Deschutes. Salmonflies and Goldens are fluttering thick!
I may be done earlier. Patience, dear swapmeister--I won't be late and I'll include some very good extras, if I have to raid my box of unused specials to do so!
05-15-2003, 11:20 AM
Well looks like I will at least beat the Rogue Spey Master this time, should have mine in the mail on Monday or Tuesday next week, and thanks for the reminder I needed it.
05-15-2003, 11:46 AM
Should be dropping mine in the mail Saturday morning.
05-15-2003, 12:23 PM
Just wanted to put a spark under everyone's butts. I just hate when most have their flies in, then rest have to wait since some delay. I just want all flies in so I can resend out by first of June.
We've already have one dropout (guess he didn't really read post after he commented on it). So, if you want to only send 12 you may. Those that have already sent in I'll resend back your extra fly.
05-15-2003, 12:38 PM
Tying a dozen of one pattern is about my fly tying breaking pyschological breaking point, before I have to do a different pattern.
Tells you something about my pysche I guess. I get bored quckly on most things, except steelhead fly fishing.
Guess I could never be a commercial fly tyer though !
05-15-2003, 02:56 PM
A dozen it is.
05-15-2003, 11:51 PM
My 13 were put in the mail this morning. Can't wait to see the other twelve.
05-16-2003, 04:02 PM
I see that Sandy River Spey Clave in OR is this weekend I thought it was next.
This means that for sure I will be able to beat Mr. Fred Evans in submitting my flies. He will be so tired from trying all of those spey rods and lines this weekend, it will be next weekend before he can even think about tying flies I suspect
05-16-2003, 09:38 PM
Rumor has it Mr. Fred is a demon with the long rod.
05-17-2003, 08:47 AM
I bet he is, heck he has been doing it for I think over 20 or 30 years !
6 flys keeper flys done, 6 more to go today and tomorrow, will be in the mail Monday to Jerry.
Fred will be taking advil for his aching muscles from all that spey casting at the clave, will be in no shape for fly tying until middle to end of week I suspect.
05-17-2003, 09:58 AM
Bet you were aching after your battle with that Sage. Looked like the rod was winning.:devil:
05-19-2003, 12:37 AM
So, my flies will be in the mail tomorrow. Just confirming.
05-19-2003, 10:02 AM
Dear Fly Swap Meister (Steelheader 69 - aka Jerry)
They are done and going in the mail today as previously stated in this thread.
Thanks for meistering the swap also.
05-19-2003, 11:53 PM
"This means that for sure I will be able to beat Mr. Fred Evans in submitting my flies. He will be so tired from trying all of those spey rods and lines this weekend, it will be next weekend before he can even think about tying flies I suspect."
The good news is I've only got two of the flys done; 'Clave in the way time wise. The Bad news is I got to stroke, fondle, tweek (it giggled), and otherwise possibly ob ... na, you don't want to know ... your 5wt Sage this weekend.
Very nice rod, no doubt about it ... if you're fishing for half pounders. A 8-10# hot fish in moving water would have it flat to the water. But the good news ... other light rods at the 'Clave that were just to die for!!
05-20-2003, 02:50 AM
I may have these flies out by June 1st! That would be when I wanted them sorted/mailed. I still am waiting a return reply from one person, so hoping to hear if they do plan to actually participate. Right now I have 4 sets of flies in my hand (1 set is mine). Only 8 more to go (since Sparkey dropped out under a technicality :hehe: )
What a neat "comeback" that was. How can he respond to THAT reply???
05-26-2003, 05:24 PM
Just a few more needed and I'm all done. Want them NOW, or I'll have to simply send all of you who sent patterns in late a picture of flies you were SUPPOSED to get. :hehe: :D Don't make me sit you in the corner and :tsk_tsk: .
We had one more drop out. So, only need to send 11 flies if you haven't done so already. Those of you who already sent in, I'll send you your extra flies back. Come on now, only need a couple sets now.
05-27-2003, 01:13 AM
As for me, please use the extra fly yourself, I'd like to know what those Oly Pen fish think of it!
05-27-2003, 08:52 AM
The wife said she put them in the mail last Monday, funny thing is I found them in her back seat Saturday afternoon.
I wonder what Monday she meant. She promised to mail them today via 2 day air. Sorry
05-27-2003, 12:06 PM
They're underway, ordered more double hooks last week to finish up and got the wrong stuff. Nuts; picking more doubles tonight so mine should be ready to go in a couple of days.
Appoligizes to all.
05-27-2003, 11:28 PM
No apologies needed here, Fred, since I am probably next-to-last.
Jerry, mine are done and will go out express mail tomorrow.
I can't say my ties were real consistent--hackle length varied fly-to-fly, but other than that I'm satisfied since I hadn't tied much in the last 6 or 7 months. Felt good to get going again. Now to restock the trout flies for my son and I to head to the Deschutes next week...
05-28-2003, 12:25 AM
Actually this looks darned hot.:D
With a couple of exceptions (my last order of double hooks was anything but what I ordered ... sheesh so I had to hit a local store.. and could only get 12) the fly's are on Daiichi #6 doubles.
The body is spun (sp?) Master Bright Peacock Black and the head is New Age Candy Chenille size 2 "Jaw Breaker#04."
God I can't wait till the summer runs show up in numbers ( a few over the counter already) to give this Puppy a go.
06-02-2003, 09:56 AM
With all the new flies moving around, what do we have as consensus on knots for flourocarbon leaders? Palomar, improved Turle ?
06-02-2003, 11:36 AM
or the Uni-Knot, same thing, is my choice, regardless of what type tippet. This knot allows the fly to swing freely on the end of the leader as opposed to being held stiffly as with a cinch or improved cinch.
Just my .02.
06-02-2003, 11:53 AM
A triple surgen's knot; BUT when you pull it tight do it quickly so product A doesn't cut into product B.
06-02-2003, 09:34 PM
Let's not forget the Riffle Hitch for swinging streamers.
06-03-2003, 07:18 AM
I guess the question that is still bugging me is whether there is a knot that is especially suitable for flourocarbon tippets. The Palomar has the reputation for strength but then the fly doesn't swing freely. The Uni knot might be ok, but is it as strong as the Palomar ? Is something like the Improved Turle even in the game any more? Any other insight in one or two knots that might be best suited for the newer flourocarbon material?
In 2002, Fly Fish America published their annual Gear Guide. In it they listed a lot of good info. on FC lines, including info on regular and generation 2 fluoro (smaller diam and stronger, but more expensive - you get what you pay for!) I still have the article, for reference (a lot of good data).
(Gen. 2 tippet materials that were listed are Rio Fluoroflex Plus and Royal Wulff Triangle Taper brands)
Rio did extensive testing with an Instron tester (very accurate tensile tester) on knot strengths. Best knot strength for tippets were, tippet to fly, was a REGULAR plain ol' 6-turn clinch knot (it did better than the "improved" version!)
The best knot for tippet-to-leader was the four-turn surgeon's knot, followed closely by an 8-turn blood knot.
One other important item - fluoro gives a lot of friction when you pull it tight slowly, and does damage to itself or other leaders it is tied to, resulting in a "weak" knot. Wet the knot well when you are tying it, and pull tight with a "jerk" (No, not your dumb fishing buddy, Fred).
Tough to argue with testing - I tie my Rio Fluoroflex Plus knots that way now, and don't have problems! (I did with knots failing before I read the article.)
06-03-2003, 09:10 AM
Interesting. The old cinch knot, with special handling, comes through for flourocarbon tippetts . My wife used to work for Instron in Mass. Very reliable testing equipment - wish I had a set-up to test my own knots. Thanks for the information - where could I find the article ?
06-03-2003, 09:16 AM
Clinch knot (sp)
When did the 2002 FFA edition on guide gear come out? Also, what size tippetts were tested ? What tippett size are you using when you tie the clinch ? Trout , SH salmon?
OK - first off, Fly Fish America is a free publication (nice magazine). Most FF shops have it around. I think it comes out quarterly. The 2002 Gear Guide edition came out over a year ago -sometime between Christmas and March.
Incidentally, the 2003 Gear Guide had an "update" for fluoro, showing all brands, but not as extensive.
I don't know where you can get a copy of the magazine. It is published by Outdoor Enthusiast Media, Inc. of North Conway NH.
Tippet weights tested were not listed.
My personal fishing is mostly done in Lake Ontario tribs and the neat streams of northern NY with an occasional trip to the Catskills and a fishing trip to Yellowstone every few years.
I have used 0X to 5X tippets with good results (especially since reading the article).
PS - as a retired chem engineer and metallurgist, I am VERY aware of the accuracy and precision of the Instron! That's why I was so impressed!
06-03-2003, 12:55 PM
Thanks Bob - good stuff
How would you suggest someone test their own knots with some kind of measuring system?
06-10-2003, 03:36 AM
Got mjyp's flies today. Didn't have time to sort and rebox up. So will sit down tomorrow and get them all ready to go. Will either ship out tomorrow or Wednesday. Will post pics once I'm all done for all to see.
Measuring knot strength is a tough one unless you have access to a lab with a recording "strain gauge" or "mini-tensile tester".
About the only way the average guy can do it at home is to do this:
Suspend a spool of the material so it doesn't slip (line doesn't roll off the spool).
Tie on a hook, using your best technique.
Suspend a bucket from the hook a couple of inches off the floor by the hook so it doesn't tip over when the leader mat'l fails (breaks) and it falls.
Slowly add sand to the bucket until the leader mat'l breaks.
Weigh the bucket and the sand on a good scale. Record the weight.
Repeat this test about 10 times, and you will get a pretty good comparison of how the knot is working, AND how repeatable and consistent your knot tying is (which is of equal or more importance).
Interesting to do this - if the variability is high, it's not the knot's fault! I did a similar test, and as a result, decided to really work, take care, and cleaned up my knot tying. Then the results were reasonably consistent!
06-12-2003, 11:02 AM
I was comparing 3 brands of 4 lb test. The spool of Prefexion was the only one with CONSISTANT weakness. It was old or defective. In 40 years of fishing I've never seen anything like it. Could not fish this stuff with any confidence at all. No issue at all with XL or Performance Trilenes.