04-06-2003, 09:26 PM
How about a Flat Wing Popper?
04-06-2003, 09:26 PM
How about a Flat Wing Popper?
04-06-2003, 09:57 PM
04-06-2003, 10:04 PM
That fly makes me nervous....it's looking back at me. :eek:
Looks like a winner!
04-06-2003, 10:05 PM
Now you`ve done it. Opened up a whole new can of worms!
04-06-2003, 10:19 PM
Sure, I tie up a flatwing crease fly and you beat me to it......LOL
04-06-2003, 11:34 PM
Mike... a crease fly???? HHHHHMMMM....had not thougth of that...well you had better get that up because you may see it tomorrow night. LOL
04-07-2003, 06:05 AM
I have a flat wing surf candy. Keep it well hidden. Not sure if it's legal:D
04-07-2003, 07:05 AM
Here are some examples of the "imbeded" Feathers on poppers and pointed nose crease flys.
04-07-2003, 07:13 AM
Those are some really cool flies! Man, just what I need, 10 more patterns to tie! :smokin: That first popper you posted is really cool, but the second pic shows all sorts of neat stuff. Did you coat the bodies with epoxy?
I propose a 'popper swap' for next Winter...
04-07-2003, 08:07 AM
Yes they are coated with epoxy and they do float...Again..all this stuff is going back to the Future...looking at the old materials and combining with some new materials...but people forget what you can do with the old standby's ...like chicken feathers... This poppers are basically attractors...but with a simple combination of blue and white... a popper becomes the Herring... like a popper/deciever combo......Think it though....Who said a popper has to be white with a big red front????
04-07-2003, 08:22 AM
So the feathers are attached to the popper and then extended off the back of the body, right? That first pic you posted looks a bit like a mackerel pattern, would work great in Florida.
04-07-2003, 11:59 AM
Great looking and wildly innovative fly. I hope you've put that up on Kenny Abrames' board as well. I want to read the palpitations of the purists. ;)
04-07-2003, 12:38 PM
Please do post the flatwing popper on www.stripermoon.com!
As a so-called "purist", I love the design, and the philosophy behind it. New ways of looking at fly tying... combinations of materials...historic methods...observation...thinking outside the box...those are the real messages that Kenny (and a lot of others) are trying to get out. Keep up the good work, John. You're an inspiration to all of us!
04-07-2003, 12:49 PM
Jay and Doc... just put it on www.stripermoon.com.... under the "fly Tying" section in the message boards.
04-07-2003, 01:42 PM
Great flys John.
I would argue that they are not flat wings. I think that the "flat wing" refers to the saddle lying flat over the hook shank, as opposed to deciever style, which is vertical in orientation. So, the action will be different.
Having said that, there are many similarities and inspirations. I hope you went all the way and made the popper body out of balsa.
04-07-2003, 02:00 PM
Eddie, I thought of that and You are 100% right... so the popper is part Flat wing and part deciever in that the wing applications on the top and bottom would be the same at the flat wing and the side applications the same as the deceiver...don't know about the action..but I think the popper will overpower any wing action anyway... How about..The "Frankenstein Fly".
04-07-2003, 02:59 PM
I like the Fleiver Pop
04-07-2003, 03:06 PM
How about "the anti-clouser" :hehe:
04-07-2003, 03:11 PM
STRIBLUE, SUPER! now Ill have to do some.
"GOOD LUCK GOOD TYIN":smokin:
04-07-2003, 03:37 PM
Regardless of what they're called, they sure look like they'll catch fish!
04-08-2003, 10:03 AM
Well I think I created a little stir on Abrame's Board... First I did not post correctly .... second of all I did not put the pattern directions in immediatly ... third.. MikeF. says my fly are not innovative or original..but he does not get it... the others on the board did ... but you could tell he had a bone to pick which I think goes back ... anyway... a little shell shocked...although Kelsey and Ken did do a good job on discussing the terms innovative and original and Kelsey had a good grasp of the history which is something I like. I sent my directions for two of the flys but I will back out of that forum ...
04-08-2003, 10:08 AM
:confused: Snobbery on their part, it sounds like.
04-08-2003, 10:30 AM
I got the same vibes over there...wouldn't loose too much sleep over it (if at all :hehe: )
04-08-2003, 11:37 AM
I think you need to mine the minerals and forge your own hooks as well as drill for the fossil fuels to make your epoxy... ;)
I think your flies are awesome and know that they will catch fish.
04-08-2003, 12:26 PM
Stop waisting your valuable time trying to post your work on that board, no matter what you tie according to that board it was already done.
To me every new fly that you have tied and posted, is your original, and I have never seen anything like it
I posted a fly that I have never seen anywhere,on that board and I was almost accused of stealing something that was already done once before, they called it an Aztec fly tied years before, but they never showed me any proof of that.
Unless you are fly tying historian and have a large library of past fly books, you will never know if you tied something in all honesty to be your own creation.
I believe that the only original pattern lately, qnd is not a copy of anything anyone can find in any fly history book, is the K.A. Flatwing.
Once in a while I will logon to that link, to see if there is anything new, its always the same 1 or 2 that will post K.A. Flatwings, using differant color saddles.
You would have to be well heald money wise to be able to have an inventory of saddles to be able to tie his variety of Flatwings.
Thanks to Boarmountain for making it possible to be able to purchase Saddles at a reasonable price.
John I'm looking forward to more of your own creation, none that I have ever seen before, regardless of what they say, God knows that I can't efford his Saddles let alone Fly Tying History Books' so that I'm not accused of stealing someone else's design.
04-08-2003, 12:44 PM
Joe..Thanks..and I agree with you... I just posted that I got an "indescribable" e-mail from the God Father..giving me his opinion... I which I took Freshwater streamers and ..elongated them ..turned the feather somewhat and claimed that those where original...Hell... I am Mad as hell..right now...:mad:
04-08-2003, 01:15 PM
John - Well, it woud seem that the title of this thread has certainly held true for the other forum. So, there really is a group of self-righteous snobs in the fly fishing vocation... I had heard about these people in the past, but didn't realize that they were still around.
You know, I thought that your label of "flatwing popper" was more just a general description of blending the two styles together, and as I have said, this pattern will catch fish I'm sure. If these guys on the other forum berate anyone posting a pattern that isn't some brand new creation, just how is anyone supposed to learn from the premise of building new patterns on the foundations of the old ones, and how many posts can they possibly get? Screw 'em, I say. Don't waste your time, as Joe points out. They sound like a bunch of jerks.
04-08-2003, 01:46 PM
I just looked over the posts on the other board and had to laugh...
I have never read such a dissertation on original vs. innovative patterns before. Obviously from THE AUTHORITY :rolleyes:
I get the feeling these guys spend more time sitting around the beach sipping non-fat lattes...comparing equipment..and of course discussing the finer points of original/innovative patterns than actually fishing.
IT'S JUST A FLY!
04-08-2003, 06:40 PM
Let's keep it civil.
I think those guys fish alot.
I was afraid that John would step on a land mine over there, and I think that if he had been a little more familiar with the strange vibe, some of the misunderstanding could have been avoided. A little recon if you will.
It's a shame.
Nice flys John.